Using tables for your site? Don't! Helps with SEO and can boost your rankings up!

Ilikefree · 12-03-09, 08:21 PM

Hi guys,

Did you know that using tables can hurt your SEO?
Did you know using tables to design a site is bad?

Well this guide will explain what to do if you are coding a website yourself.

In a nutshell:
Use CSS and DIVs. Stay away from tables as much as possible.

Now, you may have designed a website in Photoshop, and chosen to save the file as an HTML file. This is a bad case scenario. Photoshop exports the files as images (which already is bad for SEO if you had all your content in the images), and then people use tables to write up their content and only use a tiny bit of CSS to style the table (fonts, etc.).

Some good tutorials for learning CSS are available at:
CSS Tutorial

A video that will teach you position an image using a div layer:
YouTube - CSS Tutorial // Div Layers, Classes

Alternatively, if you find all that code-malarky confusing, there is a downloadable trial you can get which automatically do it, but it wont always work:
http://www.table2css.com

Good luck!

Jamie

messyhead · 13-03-09, 11:25 AM

Good points there. There's also some good books in my sig link for web deisgn without tables.

A little history lesson: The t'internet was originally used by scientists to send tables of results from experiments to one another all over the world. That's where the HTML table tags came from. Tables are only ever meant to be used for, well, tables. But in the 90's some wise ass designers managed to figure out that tables could be used to position content on a web page, and so the table based layout for design was born.

It was (and still is) the scourge of the internet. The trouble with tables is that when a browser encounters a table tag, it then reads all of the table content before displaying it. So with an old table based layout, you would get a blank screen while the table was read, and then all of a sudden the whole page would pop up on screen. It's not so much of a problem with broadband, but back in the 56K Modem days it was annoying. I think I remember reading that the guy that originally published about how to create table layouts, has since said it was the worst thing he has ever done for web design, and regrets it.

When CSS came along, it provided a brilliant alternative to tables for layout.

I wouldn't never use a table for a layout, and even the first sites I made were with CSS. Table do have their place within web design, but only for displaying a table of results etc, which is what they always were intended for.

To add to what ilikefree said, the reason using CSS is better for SEO is that the HTML code that the search engine reads, only has the relevant HTML and page content. There's no extra code within the HTML page, as all the styling is in the CSS sheet. So if you view a well designed page with the CSS disabled, you'll still have a usable and readable page - known as semantic coding.

sevrette65 · 29-03-09, 01:54 AM

Just added a contact form to my site and wondered if the fact that it is between table tags could hurt my SEO?

Jon · 29-03-09, 07:12 AM

As far as it goes for googlebot reading the page, I can't see it having that bigger effect on SEO?, vbulletin still outputs threads/forums in tables (as does phpbb etc) and I don't see sites powered by them ranking poorly compared to similar semantic templates

As for SEO and a contact form, personally id not worry about that, as you want people to find your sites by your main keywords and not your contact form - if I have it on a separate page I often block it via robots.txt

sevrette65 · 29-03-09, 03:51 PM

Thanks, I forgot that we were able to do this in the robots.txt file.

Ilikefree · 29-03-09, 04:57 PM

Googlebot can penalize your site for using tables (as I found out a couple years back), as they're made for data presentation, and not websites.

SelfSilent · 29-03-09, 11:06 PM

DIVs are cleaner and easier anyway.

bigalreturn · 12-04-09, 03:33 AM

There's no real SEO advantage to using CSS over tables - Google is good enough to pull the data it wants from your site regardless of which you use. It may not be the best design practice, but all Google cares about (in terms of on-site SEO) is the quality of information you provide. Whether information is provided within a table, or within a div, if it is high quality Google will like it, if it is low quality Google won't.
The place where semantic code can help is in marking up, for example, appropriate header tags (h1 h2 etc.). This still falls within the remit of quality information, however, as it is making your site more logical to humans as well as search engines.

Although this is pretty irrelevant when making a site encouraging people to get free AV equipment, another time when tables are a disaster is when visually impaired people are using screenreaders - as the order in a table is generally somewhat haphazard, compared with its logical order, it often makes little sense when read out.

aquascene · 21-07-09, 05:26 PM

I've always hated trying to get my site to comply with SEO, it drives me mad.

12-03-09, 08:21 PM	#1
Ilikefree Mini Mac Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London Posts: 5,087	Using tables for your site? Don't! Helps with SEO and can boost your rankings up! Hi guys, Did you know that using tables can hurt your SEO? Did you know using tables to design a site is bad? Well this guide will explain what to do if you are coding a website yourself. In a nutshell: Use CSS and DIVs. Stay away from tables as much as possible. Now, you may have designed a website in Photoshop, and chosen to save the file as an HTML file. This is a bad case scenario. Photoshop exports the files as images (which already is bad for SEO if you had all your content in the images), and then people use tables to write up their content and only use a tiny bit of CSS to style the table (fonts, etc.). Some good tutorials for learning CSS are available at: CSS Tutorial A video that will teach you position an image using a div layer: YouTube - CSS Tutorial // Div Layers, Classes Alternatively, if you find all that code-malarky confusing, there is a downloadable trial you can get which automatically do it, but it wont always work: http://www.table2css.com Good luck! Jamie __________________ *Help an old friend wrap up his freebie-ing by signing up for me in a trade on either Apple FJ or PS3 Kudos! £15 per green!* (pm me and I'll set it up in the trade centre)

13-03-09, 11:25 AM	#2
messyhead iBook Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Glasgow Posts: 2,266	Good points there. There's also some good books in my sig link for web deisgn without tables. A little history lesson: The t'internet was originally used by scientists to send tables of results from experiments to one another all over the world. That's where the HTML table tags came from. Tables are only ever meant to be used for, well, tables. But in the 90's some wise ass designers managed to figure out that tables could be used to position content on a web page, and so the table based layout for design was born. It was (and still is) the scourge of the internet. The trouble with tables is that when a browser encounters a table tag, it then reads all of the table content before displaying it. So with an old table based layout, you would get a blank screen while the table was read, and then all of a sudden the whole page would pop up on screen. It's not so much of a problem with broadband, but back in the 56K Modem days it was annoying. I think I remember reading that the guy that originally published about how to create table layouts, has since said it was the worst thing he has ever done for web design, and regrets it. When CSS came along, it provided a brilliant alternative to tables for layout. I wouldn't never use a table for a layout, and even the first sites I made were with CSS. Table do have their place within web design, but only for displaying a table of results etc, which is what they always were intended for. To add to what ilikefree said, the reason using CSS is better for SEO is that the HTML code that the search engine reads, only has the relevant HTML and page content. There's no extra code within the HTML page, as all the styling is in the CSS sheet. So if you view a well designed page with the CSS disabled, you'll still have a usable and readable page - known as semantic coding. __________________ Newbie's - Want to build a Website? Look here for help. Received about £1600 worth so far! Spoiler 16GB Ipod Touch from Ipods.Giveaway 2 x Nintendo DS Lites from Gifts.Kudosnetwork Nintendo Wii from Nextgen.Giveaway Nintendo Wii from Gifts.Kudosnetwork Wii Games - Tiger Woods 09, Mario & Sonic Olympics, PES2008 and Mario Kart Buffalo 1TB Drive from Gifts.Kudosnetwork Sony PSP Lite - from Gifts.Freebiejeebies Phillips Steam Generator Iron - from Gifts.Freebiejeebies £51 Amazon Vouchers - from Gifts.Freebiejeebies £560 in Bank Transfers Free Nintendo Wii \| Free Ipod Touch \| Free PS3

29-03-09, 07:12 AM	#4
Jon MJ lady with maracas Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds Posts: 12,799	As far as it goes for googlebot reading the page, I can't see it having that bigger effect on SEO?, vbulletin still outputs threads/forums in tables (as does phpbb etc) and I don't see sites powered by them ranking poorly compared to similar semantic templates As for SEO and a contact form, personally id not worry about that, as you want people to find your sites by your main keywords and not your contact form - if I have it on a separate page I often block it via robots.txt __________________

29-03-09, 04:57 PM	#6
Ilikefree Mini Mac Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London Posts: 5,087	Googlebot can penalize your site for using tables (as I found out a couple years back), as they're made for data presentation, and not websites. __________________ *Help an old friend wrap up his freebie-ing by signing up for me in a trade on either Apple FJ or PS3 Kudos! £15 per green!* (pm me and I'll set it up in the trade centre)

29-03-09, 01:54 AM	#3
sevrette65 iPod 20gb Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Quebec Posts: 408	Just added a contact form to my site and wondered if the fact that it is between table tags could hurt my SEO?

29-03-09, 03:51 PM	#5
sevrette65 iPod 20gb Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Quebec Posts: 408	Thanks, I forgot that we were able to do this in the robots.txt file.

29-03-09, 11:06 PM	#7
SelfSilent iPod Nano 4GB Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 237	DIVs are cleaner and easier anyway.

12-04-09, 03:33 AM	#8
bigalreturn iPod Shuffle Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 16	There's no real SEO advantage to using CSS over tables - Google is good enough to pull the data it wants from your site regardless of which you use. It may not be the best design practice, but all Google cares about (in terms of on-site SEO) is the quality of information you provide. Whether information is provided within a table, or within a div, if it is high quality Google will like it, if it is low quality Google won't. The place where semantic code can help is in marking up, for example, appropriate header tags (h1 h2 etc.). This still falls within the remit of quality information, however, as it is making your site more logical to humans as well as search engines. Although this is pretty irrelevant when making a site encouraging people to get free AV equipment, another time when tables are a disaster is when visually impaired people are using screenreaders - as the order in a table is generally somewhat haphazard, compared with its logical order, it often makes little sense when read out.

21-07-09, 05:26 PM	#9
aquascene iPod Nano 1GB Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Limerick, Ireland. Posts: 85	I've always hated trying to get my site to comply with SEO, it drives me mad.