SecuROM DRM protection

barcelonic · 18-06-09, 10:28 PM

Does anyone know about this? I was planning on getting Red Alert 3 until i heard it usesthis DRM which is known to disrupt DVD burners and antivirus software, and in some cases cause system failure requiring a full OS reinstall!

It now seems safer to pirate the game online, as absurd as that is! Or do you think I should buy the game but then download a crack online to get around the DRM?

I don't really know much about DRM protection, im more of a 'follow-instructions' type of guy tbh. What's the best thing to do here?

grabrail · 18-06-09, 10:56 PM

from what I understand DRM installs rootkits and such like on your computer. They are deemed to be unfair and unwanted.

However, I have Spore installed which itself installs a DRM rootkit, and touch wood so far I havnt had any problems.

I wouldnt of that if there was a potential for destroying your O/S this software would be allowed to be mass published

robertjb · 18-06-09, 11:22 PM

There's many discussions on this but the majority of people don't like the intrusion of it being on your computer, I know that I wouldn't. You should check out the reviews from amazon for games that use it:

Far Cry 2 (PC): Amazon.co.uk: PC & Video Games

rob7b · 19-06-09, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barcelonic

Does anyone know about this? I was planning on getting Red Alert 3 until i heard it usesthis DRM which is known to disrupt DVD burners and antivirus software, and in some cases cause system failure requiring a full OS reinstall!

It now seems safer to pirate the game online, as absurd as that is! Or do you think I should buy the game but then download a crack online to get around the DRM?

I don't really know much about DRM protection, im more of a 'follow-instructions' type of guy tbh. What's the best thing to do here?

lol that sounded like a "how do/can i crack this DRM"

barcelonic · 19-06-09, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob7b

lol that sounded like a "how do/can i crack this DRM"

no thats easy enough there are cracks for everything online, im just wondering if its safer to use a crack or not.

AnobizII · 19-06-09, 08:51 AM

I bought red alert 3 and installed it on my machine and it worked perfectly with no issues...

There are plenty of way to get around the drm though as stated above there are cracks everywhere for it...

barcelonic · 19-06-09, 09:38 AM

okay so im buying it today. lol im not exactly sure why, and this is the first game/dvd/cd i've bought in a looong time!

but i figured i'd buy this one, and am still a little concerned about the securom, and also the fact that my graphics card doesnt technically meet the system requirements (but the demo worked fine, as did the sims 3 which didnt meet the specs either).

However, i rang my local gamestation just now and asked the guy if i bought the game and still used the crack is that illegal and he said Yes! Which i cant believe, its this true?!?

Because look here... Ubisoft Cracks Own Game with Reloaded Fix - The piracy of piracy is possible, after all - Softpedia
How can it be illegal when you legally own the game? It makes no sense! Can anyone confirm this is true or not??

Ayo312 · 19-06-09, 09:54 AM

If you have bought a game and have a crack for it it is not illegal. Same goes with gameboy roms...as long as you have a hard copy of the game that was bought its also legal. The guy at gamestation seems clueless!

barcelonic · 19-06-09, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayo312

If you have bought a game and have a crack for it it is not illegal. Same goes with gameboy roms...as long as you have a hard copy of the game that was bought its also legal. The guy at gamestation seems clueless!

thanks. thats exactly wat i thought!! wat a numpty. i guess sometimes fear overcomes logic

-null- · 19-06-09, 11:04 AM

I had a big long discussion on steam about the legallities of anti-piracy solutions because of the fact you can't transfer ownership of Empire Total War, once registered with a steam account it can't be un-registered or transferred.

As was pointed out in that discussion technically you do not own the game, you own a license to run the game. And if you are circumventing that license by using a crack it will still be illegal even though you bought and own that license.

From the RA3 EULA itself (which this just put me in the mood to re-install)

Quote:

A. Grant. Through this purchase, you are acquiring and EA grants you a personal, non-exclusive license to install and use the Software for your personal, non-commercial use solely as set forth in this License and the accompanying documentation. Your acquired rights are subject to your compliance with this Agreement. Any commercial use is prohibited. You are expressly prohibited from sub-licensing, renting, leasing or otherwise distributing the Software or rights to use the Software, except by transfer as expressly set forth in paragraph 2 below. The term of your License shall commence on the date that install or otherwise use the Software, and shall end on the earlier of the date that you dispose of the Software; or EA's termination of this License. Your license will terminate immediately if you attempt to circumvent the technical protection measures for the Software.

bolding mine

Anyway to answer your question, I bought RA3 and have had no problems with the DRM at all. IIRC they changed SecureROM slightly after the Spore debarkle so it wasn't as big a headache and you are now able to install it more times than Spore allowed.

Sachmo_51_6 · 19-06-09, 11:13 AM

Programs like SecuROM don't usually lead to any immediate problems, this is mostly because they are installed by stealth without the consent of the user (except for something vaguely referred to and buried in all the lawyer-speak in the T&C's). This software installs rootkits deep within your registry, and the only way to remove it is by reinstalling your system, if you just remove the game the rootkits will remain. No big deal you say? What it actually does, in many cases, is send information about you and your online habits to the games companies, so they snoop on you, and there's not a thing you can do about it!

However, I said at the start that they don't "usually" cause problems, but in many cases, the hidden programs they install are regarded as Windows as 'malware' due to their invasive nature and the fact that they send private information about you to other people, so you have to shut off your security programs just to install the game, and you get a lot of invasive, information stealing software into the bargain!

The ironic thing about SecuROM and DRM in general, is that games companies installed it to crack down on, and prevent, piracy. Yet even with all this new fangled software that they are using, any new release is up on certain illegal sites (or so I am led to believe, not visiting them myself) within a matter of hours/days...without any DRM software.

So the pirates are continuing to do what they have always done, and play games for free. The only people being hurt are the loyal customers who DON'T pirate software and pay a 'fair' price (I use the term loosely!) for their games, and end up with a load of invasive software installed by stealth onto their system.

Another issue with the PC Game Industry today is the issue of limited installs. Again, in an attempt to limit piracy, Companies put their thinking caps on and said "right, let's make it so you can only install each copy of the game a certain number of times (usually 3). This will mean that the person who buys it can install it and play it, but they won't be able to hand it around to all their friends, meaning that they'll all have to go out and buy it themselves, making us lots of lovely $$$".

The problems with this idea are many:
a) People can't resell their games when they've got bored of them (essentially obliterating the Second Hand Games Market).
b) The way the 'limited activations' is set up, if you reinstall your operating system (as many people do from time to time to stop their system slowing down), that counts as an activation
c) If you install a new hard drive into your computer, that counts as an activation
d) In some cases, even plugging in an external hard drive can count as an activation

(b, c and d are all to do with the unique digital signature that is given to each hard drive by the OS, different signature=an activation used up).

It is possible to get more activations (in the case of b, c and d) but it involves calling a (premium rate, I believe) customer support number and begging to be allowed to play the game you purchased.

Don't get me wrong, I am all in favour of paying the game designers, creators, producers, artists, and everyone else who contributes to a product for their work, and the end result is often exceptional. But by treating all users as criminals (which is what this software does), more and more are seeking alternative (and often illegal) means of playing the games they want to play, without being spied upon.

If the companies just accepted that some (a very small minority of) people are always going to try to get something without paying it (and so didn't bother to include all this nasty programming) they would have a lot more satisfied customers, and more money overall. But by treating all users as criminals, they are reducing the number of people who will actually go out and buy the game, and therefore reducing their profits.

Apologies for the essay (and the rant!)

-null- · 19-06-09, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sachmo_51_6

The problems with this idea are many:
a) People can't resell their games when they've got bored of them (essentially obliterating the Second Hand Games Market).
b) The way the 'limited activations' is set up, if you reinstall your operating system (as many people do from time to time to stop their system slowing down), that counts as an activation
c) If you install a new hard drive into your computer, that counts as an activation
d) In some cases, even plugging in an external hard drive can count as an activation

a is why I was so livid at Sega et al over Empire Total War (in fact I posted about it here somewhere). Despite my PC being above spec the game doesn't run all that well plus was full of bugs (some may have been patched since) and since it wasn't really my kind of game I wanted to sell it on. But because of the DRM I couldn't.

I did notice in the RA3 agreement when I was looking at it just now it did state you could pass on the game once though so you can sell it.

AnobizII · 19-06-09, 11:40 AM

If you breach these EULA all they can legally do is take the game from you.

Everyone is legally allowed to make an electronic copy of anything they own, I used this in my defence once when i got caught copying these types of games, I got off because they couldn't prove i actually sold them and i owned the originals...

This was 5-6 years ago tho so the law may have changed...

Sachmo_51_6 · 19-06-09, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnobizII

If you breach these EULA all they can legally do is take the game from you.

Everyone is legally allowed to make an electronic copy of anything they own...

This was 5-6 years ago tho so the law may have changed...

Yeah, they found a way to get around that- they put copy protection onto their discs and add the line "it is illegal to avoid, or circumvent the copy-protection on this disc".

So you can still copy CD's onto your computer (otherwise there'd be no market for MP3 players!) because they don't contain copy-protection (making an electronic back-up copy is fine, and there isn't any copy protection to avoid, so nothing illegal is going on), but copying DVDs and games is illegal now (because they have copy protection, and you'd have to avoid/circumvent it to copy it onto your system).

barcelonic · 19-06-09, 01:14 PM

When you say they send info about you to EA, what kind of info? Because i have pirated a couple games myself (i dont feel bad about it cus i never would have bought those games but just wanted to see what they were like).

Would EA's malware be able to detect those installations and could i get in trouble for that?

PS.. Interestingly Spore was the most troublesome DRM to date and so went on to become the most pirated game of 2008 - you'd think that would tell the makers something

AnobizII · 19-06-09, 01:32 PM

It depends on if you block the connections from that game, the only way EA would know is if you we're actively using the game to connect online...

I have a piece of software called PeerGuardian 2 which blocks connections of this type...

18-06-09, 10:28 PM	#1
barcelonic iBook Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Swansea Posts: 2,897	SecuROM DRM protection Does anyone know about this? I was planning on getting Red Alert 3 until i heard it usesthis DRM which is known to disrupt DVD burners and antivirus software, and in some cases cause system failure requiring a full OS reinstall! It now seems safer to pirate the game online, as absurd as that is! Or do you think I should buy the game but then download a crack online to get around the DRM? I don't really know much about DRM protection, im more of a 'follow-instructions' type of guy tbh. What's the best thing to do here?

18-06-09, 10:56 PM	#2
grabrail iBook Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Nottingham Posts: 2,325	from what I understand DRM installs rootkits and such like on your computer. They are deemed to be unfair and unwanted. However, I have Spore installed which itself installs a DRM rootkit, and touch wood so far I havnt had any problems. I wouldnt of that if there was a potential for destroying your O/S this software would be allowed to be mass published

18-06-09, 11:22 PM	#3
robertjb iPod 20gb Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 455	There's many discussions on this but the majority of people don't like the intrusion of it being on your computer, I know that I wouldn't. You should check out the reviews from amazon for games that use it: Far Cry 2 (PC): Amazon.co.uk: PC & Video Games

19-06-09, 08:51 AM	#6
AnobizII iPod Nano 4GB Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 304	I bought red alert 3 and installed it on my machine and it worked perfectly with no issues... There are plenty of way to get around the drm though as stated above there are cracks everywhere for it...

19-06-09, 09:38 AM	#7
barcelonic iBook Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Swansea Posts: 2,897	okay so im buying it today. lol im not exactly sure why, and this is the first game/dvd/cd i've bought in a looong time! but i figured i'd buy this one, and am still a little concerned about the securom, and also the fact that my graphics card doesnt technically meet the system requirements (but the demo worked fine, as did the sims 3 which didnt meet the specs either). However, i rang my local gamestation just now and asked the guy if i bought the game and still used the crack is that illegal and he said Yes! Which i cant believe, its this true?!? Because look here... Ubisoft Cracks Own Game with Reloaded Fix - The piracy of piracy is possible, after all - Softpedia How can it be illegal when you legally own the game? It makes no sense! Can anyone confirm this is true or not??

19-06-09, 09:54 AM	#8
Ayo312 iPod 30gb Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London Posts: 1,019	If you have bought a game and have a crack for it it is not illegal. Same goes with gameboy roms...as long as you have a hard copy of the game that was bought its also legal. The guy at gamestation seems clueless!

19-06-09, 11:13 AM	#11
Sachmo_51_6 iPod Nano 2GB Join Date: May 2009 Location: Plymouth/Loughborough Posts: 133	Programs like SecuROM don't usually lead to any immediate problems, this is mostly because they are installed by stealth without the consent of the user (except for something vaguely referred to and buried in all the lawyer-speak in the T&C's). This software installs rootkits deep within your registry, and the only way to remove it is by reinstalling your system, if you just remove the game the rootkits will remain. No big deal you say? What it actually does, in many cases, is send information about you and your online habits to the games companies, so they snoop on you, and there's not a thing you can do about it! However, I said at the start that they don't "usually" cause problems, but in many cases, the hidden programs they install are regarded as Windows as 'malware' due to their invasive nature and the fact that they send private information about you to other people, so you have to shut off your security programs just to install the game, and you get a lot of invasive, information stealing software into the bargain! The ironic thing about SecuROM and DRM in general, is that games companies installed it to crack down on, and prevent, piracy. Yet even with all this new fangled software that they are using, any new release is up on certain illegal sites (or so I am led to believe, not visiting them myself) within a matter of hours/days...without any DRM software. So the pirates are continuing to do what they have always done, and play games for free. The only people being hurt are the loyal customers who DON'T pirate software and pay a 'fair' price (I use the term loosely!) for their games, and end up with a load of invasive software installed by stealth onto their system. Another issue with the PC Game Industry today is the issue of limited installs. Again, in an attempt to limit piracy, Companies put their thinking caps on and said "right, let's make it so you can only install each copy of the game a certain number of times (usually 3). This will mean that the person who buys it can install it and play it, but they won't be able to hand it around to all their friends, meaning that they'll all have to go out and buy it themselves, making us lots of lovely $$$". The problems with this idea are many: a) People can't resell their games when they've got bored of them (essentially obliterating the Second Hand Games Market). b) The way the 'limited activations' is set up, if you reinstall your operating system (as many people do from time to time to stop their system slowing down), that counts as an activation c) If you install a new hard drive into your computer, that counts as an activation d) In some cases, even plugging in an external hard drive can count as an activation (b, c and d are all to do with the unique digital signature that is given to each hard drive by the OS, different signature=an activation used up). It is possible to get more activations (in the case of b, c and d) but it involves calling a (premium rate, I believe) customer support number and begging to be allowed to play the game you purchased. Don't get me wrong, I am all in favour of paying the game designers, creators, producers, artists, and everyone else who contributes to a product for their work, and the end result is often exceptional. But by treating all users as criminals (which is what this software does), more and more are seeking alternative (and often illegal) means of playing the games they want to play, without being spied upon. If the companies just accepted that some (a very small minority of) people are always going to try to get something without paying it (and so didn't bother to include all this nasty programming) they would have a lot more satisfied customers, and more money overall. But by treating all users as criminals, they are reducing the number of people who will actually go out and buy the game, and therefore reducing their profits. Apologies for the essay (and the rant!)

19-06-09, 11:40 AM	#13
AnobizII iPod Nano 4GB Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 304	If you breach these EULA all they can legally do is take the game from you. Everyone is legally allowed to make an electronic copy of anything they own, I used this in my defence once when i got caught copying these types of games, I got off because they couldn't prove i actually sold them and i owned the originals... This was 5-6 years ago tho so the law may have changed...

19-06-09, 01:14 PM	#15
barcelonic iBook Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Swansea Posts: 2,897	When you say they send info about you to EA, what kind of info? Because i have pirated a couple games myself (i dont feel bad about it cus i never would have bought those games but just wanted to see what they were like). Would EA's malware be able to detect those installations and could i get in trouble for that? PS.. Interestingly Spore was the most troublesome DRM to date and so went on to become the most pirated game of 2008 - you'd think that would tell the makers something

19-06-09, 01:32 PM	#16
AnobizII iPod Nano 4GB Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 304	It depends on if you block the connections from that game, the only way EA would know is if you we're actively using the game to connect online... I have a piece of software called PeerGuardian 2 which blocks connections of this type...