2012 Prophecies???

[barcelonic]

all governments hide things. this is usually done to prevent other nations from finding out their plans for new technology (usually weapons/aircraft etc..)

there was a great program on ufos on ch4 the other day, watch it here if u are convinced they are aliens. personally ive never been convinced. - UFOs: The Secret Evidence | Watch Online | Free Catch-Up on Channel 4 Shows

anti-grav technology has been around for a while, just not in the public domain, but recently even scientifically minded citizens have invented their own propulsion models.

as for the illuminati, im not sure to be honest whether they still exist but i do believe in the plans for a one-world government (planned in my opinion by the Bilderberg group). the EU is the first step. Bush has already signed a 'trade union agreement' called the North American Union, which plans to use one currency (the Amero) for US, Canada & Mexico. He did this out of the public eye, much like the decisions to form the EU were taken out of the hands of the people in most EU countries.

this is just my two cents worth though, im not saying i am right or anything. the last thing i wud want to do is set off another longwinded debate.

but Rayman, i would suggest you watch the documentary on Ch4.com . it will give you an insight into the other possibility of UFOs, that they are secret military technology and not alien craft. It shows how the Germans were working on this same technology, and given how the US stole all the Nazi's technology after WWII and recruited their top scientists in exchange for sparing them from the Nuremberg trials, I would have to agree that it is a more likely possibility.

Edit: the documentary is presented by none other than the man who for years was the chief UFO investigator at the Ministry of Defence

[Rayman]

Im not really sure about UFOs but at the same time i dont think that we are the only life in the universe, but i think area 51 is really dodgy,
theres a youtube video of a radio conversation with a man who was previously a worker in area 51, he told the radio station that he was early resigned because they thought he was mentally unwell, but when this man was talking, he sounded fine, however he didnt say anything that would expose area 51, but did say that there is some messed up ish there, and that the US government are doing terrible things undercover. and when he started to get into a bit of detail, the whole radio station had a power-cut, and when they went back on air, the phone was engaged.

[mcgrou]

Originally Posted by Mac-d

I havnt read any of his other works, but the Da Vinci code is pure plagiarism.

And i hate the way he writes like what he speaks about is fact and theres more to the book than the pure fiction that it is.

To be honest, I wasn't reading it for information, or even to learn from it... I was just reading it for the entertainment value - and it is a very entertaining book. Angels & Demons is even more so though IMO...

[Mac-d]

Originally Posted by barcelonic

The media told us Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. They are now trying to paint a picture of President Ahminejad with his finger on the button, despite the fact he is not in control of Iran, is unable to declare war and is not responsible for Iran's enrichment programme.

I really have to roll my eyes when i hear stuff like this about the media.
No the media did not tell us Iraq had WMD's It was politicians with agendas, the media may have given coverage to these politicians but there was also much coverage from people saying we should not go to war.

Whether or not Ahmadinejad is the real power in Iran or not (and i think its common knowledge that it was the ayatollahas who overthrew the last regime) He does not help himself by making inflammatory comments towards Israel and the west in general. He makes no bones about the fact he believes Iran should have nuclear power, if you think this is a harmless puppet you are quite wrong.


This line that people always use about the media is total bull****, what i always say to people who say "oh you always believe the media" is; no, but I base much of my opinions on current events on what is broadcast and written in the media, Why do you have a direct line to god to get your information from?
I feel i am intelligent enough to see when a news report is pushing an agenda, this happens a lot in american news, Fox being one of the worst offenders but if you actually watch the content of much of the bbc's news service you will find informative reports made as unbiased as possible.

The case about the terrorist training camp being struck down by the plague was widely reported, well i remember it quite well, and im not saying the CIA wasn't involved but the evidence that because they studied viruses in the past is not evidence of involvement and you seem to elude to the fact that there is some sort of cover up taking place were the media dont report this because of an agreement/understanding with the US government.This i cannot buy.
If the CIA were involved then the media would not know about it, like the rest of us, and to assume they were, is looking for conspiracy.
What i feel is more likely the case is, that in that area of the world sanitation and hygiene is not at a high level disease can break out.
Governments, by the nature of their primary objective to protect its people can be secretive in its activities, I dont deny this (it has been proved to be the case many times in the past) but to assume that secrecy is a part of some wider conspiracy has no grounding in reality.
The fact is we do not know, but there are many things we do not know about now and many things we did not know about in the past that have given rise to hundreds of outlandish theory, the differences between many of the past theories and present ones is that 99% of the past ones have been proven to be wrong. Just because there is scope for for conjecture does not mean we have to believe it.

I think there are certain comparisons to be made to religious beliefs and the leap of faith that you have to take, with much of the theories that are banded around.
It is almost like a substitute for the human mind; as religion is on the decline in the developed world, people have some deeper desire to feel that there is more to everything than meets the eye.
For me though, Im not sold on very many of these beliefs that require that huge leap of faith from what is factually known, religion and conspiracy included. (But I do believe in extra terrestrial life )

[tronsmith]

Barcelonic, I am on the same wave length as you. I beleive that steps are being taken to create a NWO. Project Bluebeam will soon be im full motion and we will look to the govenment for help (who are in on it so to speak).

The amount of coverage that UFOs (unidentified flying objects - not aliens) are getting recently has sky rocketed. We being exposed more and more to the possibility of extra terrestrial life as disclosure is close. Or they are taking the initial steps for Bluebeam.

FEMA have (supposedly) set up concentration camps for those that the NWO see as trouble makers.

The Northern American Union and the Amero is another step towards an NWO.

I am not saying that any of this is or isn't true, I just enjoy a bit of speculation.

Also, sorry about the structure of my post, I am not feeling great and my mind isn't functioning properly.

[barcelonic]

Originally Posted by Mac-d

I really have to roll my eyes when i hear stuff like this about the media.
No the media did not tell us Iraq had WMD's It was politicians with agendas, the media may have given coverage to these politicians but there was also much coverage from people saying we should not go to war.

Whether or not Ahmadinejad is the real power in Iran or not (and i think its common knowledge that it was the ayatollahas who overthrew the last regime) He does not help himself by making inflammatory comments towards Israel and the west in general. He makes no bones about the fact he believes Iran should have nuclear power, if you think this is a harmless puppet you are quite wrong.


This line that people always use about the media is total bull****, what i always say to people who say "oh you always believe the media" is; no, but I base much of my opinions on current events on what is broadcast and written in the media, Why do you have a direct line to god to get your information from?
I feel i am intelligent enough to see when a news report is pushing an agenda, this happens a lot in american news, Fox being one of the worst offenders but if you actually watch the content of much of the bbc's news service you will find informative reports made as unbiased as possible.

The case about the terrorist training camp being struck down by the plague was widely reported, well i remember it quite well, and im not saying the CIA wasn't involved but the evidence that because they studied viruses in the past is not evidence of involvement and you seem to elude to the fact that there is some sort of cover up taking place were the media dont report this because of an agreement/understanding with the US government.This i cannot buy.
If the CIA were involved then the media would not know about it, like the rest of us, and to assume they were, is looking for conspiracy.
What i feel is more likely the case is, that in that area of the world sanitation and hygiene is not at a high level disease can break out.
Governments, by the nature of their primary objective to protect its people can be secretive in its activities, I dont deny this (it has been proved to be the case many times in the past) but to assume that secrecy is a part of some wider conspiracy has no grounding in reality.
The fact is we do not know, but there are many things we do not know about now and many things we did not know about in the past that have given rise to hundreds of outlandish theory, the differences between many of the past theories and present ones is that 99% of the past ones have been proven to be wrong. Just because there is scope for for conjecture does not mean we have to believe it.

I think there are certain comparisons to be made to religious beliefs and the leap of faith that you have to take, with much of the theories that are banded around.
It is almost like a substitute for the human mind; as religion is on the decline in the developed world, people have some deeper desire to feel that there is more to everything than meets the eye.
For me though, Im not sold on very many of these beliefs that require that huge leap of faith from what is factually known, religion and conspiracy included. (But I do believe in extra terrestrial life )

Lol, i love the way your last bracketed statements contradicts most of what you just said.

I myself admitted that plague does still exist in nature, but it seems odd it would not have spread out of this camp. Of course the media does not have an agreement with the government, the media tends to be as critical of government as we are.

Due to the nature of capitalism though, the major investors in media companies also invest heavily in other industries such as health and the automotive industry. Why was the electric car which was so popular in California 10 yrs ago suddenly ceased to be pushed as an alternative. Why have we been told the electric car is 15 years away, for the last 15 years?

Why for example has the Bilderberg group been shrouded in such secrecy and given practially NO media coverage? Don't you think the nature of their meetings is something the media would love to report on? The only people who can tell the news networks not to report on something, or to spin something a certain way, are the bosses and shareholders of those networks. These people attend Bilderberg meetings with leaders in the areas of politics, health, media, and religion.

Bill Cinton attended one of these meetings when he was governor of Arkansas, Tony blair attended one before he was PM. Is it merely coincidental these figures then went on to power.

Why does the media give no coverage to the fact that Ayatollah Khameni is the leader of Iran and he wants nothing other than peace? Id be shocked if Iran didn't want a nuclear capability. In their region it is the only true deterrent. And of course they want nuclear power - all nations do because oil is running out, and without their oil they are less powerful and would be subject to attack. Why is not noted that Iran tried to broker a peace deal with the US in 2003 and offered to agree to all the US' terms, and yet the US rejected it. Why does the US refer to their targets as the 'axis of evil' - when Iran was added to that list in 2002 it came as an enormous shock to them as they had been helping the US in Afghanistan.

If the US wants democracy in the middle east, why did the CIA stage a coup in Iran in 1953, overthrowing their democracy and installing a pro-US dictator, the Shah?

Why does the US not go into other dictatorships, and instead focusing on the ones with oil they can lay claim to - Iraq, Iran & Venezuela?

As i said im not going to debate anymore but all my original point was is that Zeitgeist, Iran is not a problem, Flow for the love of water, who killed the electric car, and all the other recent documentaries which are unrelated yet tie closely together, can ardly be labelled propoganda as they carry far more unbiased information that the mainstream media.

[Mac-d]

Originally Posted by barcelonic

Lol, i love the way your last bracketed statements contradicts most of what you just said.

I myself admitted that plague does still exist in nature, but it seems odd it would not have spread out of this camp. Of course the media does not have an agreement with the government, the media tends to be as critical of government as we are.

Due to the nature of capitalism though, the major investors in media companies also invest heavily in other industries such as health and the automotive industry. Why was the electric car which was so popular in California 10 yrs ago suddenly ceased to be pushed as an alternative. Why have we been told the electric car is 15 years away, for the last 15 years?

Why for example has the Bilderberg group been shrouded in such secrecy and given practially NO media coverage? Don't you think the nature of their meetings is something the media would love to report on? The only people who can tell the news networks not to report on something, or to spin something a certain way, are the bosses and shareholders of those networks. These people attend Bilderberg meetings with leaders in the areas of politics, health, media, and religion.

Bill Cinton attended one of these meetings when he was governor of Arkansas, Tony blair attended one before he was PM. Is it merely coincidental these figures then went on to power.

Why does the media give no coverage to the fact that Ayatollah Khamene is the leader of Iran and he wants nothing other than peace? Id be shocked if Iran didn't want a nuclear capability. In their region it is the only true deterrent. And of course they want nuclear power - all nations do because oil is running out, and without their oil they are less powerful and would be subject to attack. Why is not noted that Iran tried to broker a peace deal with the US in 2003 and offered to agree to all the US' terms, and yet the US rejected it. Why does the US refer to their targets as the 'axis of evil' - when Iran was added to that list in 2002 it came as an enormous shock to them as they had been helping the US in Afghanistan.

If the US wants democracy in the middle east, why did the CIA stage a coup in Iran in 1953, overthrowing their democracy and installing a pro-US dictator, the Shah?

Why does the US not go into other dictatorships, and instead focusing on the ones with oil they can lay claim to - Iraq, Iran & Venezuela?

As i said im not going to debate anymore but all my original point was is that Zeitgeist, Iran is not a problem, Flow for the love of water, who killed the electric car, and all the other recent documentaries which are unrelated yet tie closely together, can ardly be labelled propoganda as they carry far more unbiased information that the mainstream media.

the electric car is here, you could buy one tomorrow if you chose to.
the reason it has not caught on is because it is not energy efficient, for most electricity you are still burning fossil fuels, not only this but electric cars have many flaws compared to what we use now, just one of them is that they take ages to re-charge. The future is actually hydrogen based.
This point you raise, i can only assume you are trying to connect to a conspiracy regarding people in power trying to keep the reliance on oil.
It is a very loose point which proves nothing other than certain individuals and organisations have invested interest in maintaining oil reliance.
So your telling me that when honda made the first hydrogen power plant for use in its concept car that they plan to manufacture, somehow, even though its just as good as the fossil fuel alternative (not the case with electric cars) it wont become popular because some mystical, secretive organisation with very influential members wont allow it? come on dont be silly

your arguments jump from one place to another and dont even touch the sides of the wider picture and for me to logically pick holes in them it would take far more words than the non-evidential points you raise.

when you say Khamenei wants nothing but peace, are you being serious?
the fact is that when a leader of a country gives a speech talking about the inhalation of one of its neighbour sates (Israel) and then wants to talk about perusing nuclear technology the rest of the world are going to react.
and seeing as iran is one of the most oil rich countries in the world means they have no immediate need for alternative power (i dont really see them as the green type do you?)

It was President Bush and his administration that referred to iran and other states as 'the axis of evil', that American government were idiots and war mongers and have been widely condemned by not only much ofthe rest of the world but also in America its self, this is what happens when you put an average Joe in to office, but this is a whole other topic.
Iran have been fighting the Taliban for years, but for its own reasons. They were not helping the US.
US foreign policy is something of great debate and is a very complicated subject. To use it to prove points you make about conspiracy theory is not evidence of anything.

If you don't want to continue on this topic then fine but if you do, please tell me what it is that you believe rather than giving small pieces of anecdotal evidence which dont have any links to one another, I find it difficult to assume to what you are using these points to prove.

EDIT: my believing in extra terrestrial existence is not contradictory to me not believing in every conspiracy out there.