Really annoyed - Maybe some legal advice needed.

[Schism]

Hey all

Yesterday, I was in Mansfield (it's like in Nottinghamshire), and as you may know, I'm from Leicester... Me and few mates were sitting down on a bench in the centre eating some food that we had just bought, and then a man walked out of the chip shop and accused us for littering (he worked for the council I think, as he had something to do with that on his jacket), I then thought to myself, oh yeah, crap, I lobbed an empty packet of crisps at my mate, and at that time, I didn't think of it as littering, as I was just mucking around with him. He also explained that a camera had been watching us for the past 10 minutes or so.

There was 6 of us, and he told 3 of my mates to go down the road out of site because they weren't involved in what happened. Leaving 3 of us on the bench.

He then got out a notebook and asked if I've ever had a caution before, I said no, and he said it'll be my first one, I just thought fair enough, I suppose I was in the wrong... he took my address, name etc then he handed it to me and said that I would be issued with a £75 fine and I'd have to pay it in the next 2 weeks.

I was well surprised, because if I remember correctly, that's a fine, not a caution, he then said "I'd advise you to pick up any litter that is yours and put it in the bin" so I did what he said, but then I said nothing more and just walked down to my other mates that were around the corner. Then after a while, the other two came down with a £75 fine too (they had obviously littered too).

Now, the main things that strike me is the fact that:

• He failed to produce a badge, proving who he was and who he worked for, and he could have been any Tom Dick or Harry for all I knew, he also didn't look very professional as his arms were covered in tatoos with "LOVE" "HATE" tatooed on his knuckles.
• How he said he was giving me a caution, then handed me a fine.
• How he asked me to pick up the litter afterwards and didn't give us a chance... Usually if you were a decent person, a policeman would give you the oppurtunity to pick up the litter beforehand, and if you refuse, then make you pay the fine.
• Also, how he fined all 3 of us?
• This is mainly where I need the legal advice... because we were fined supposedly by the Mansfield Council, and I live in jurisdiction of the Leicester Council, can they still fine us? My mate was speaking to him about this when I left, and even the guy fining us seemed unsure.

I'd like to also add that I don't usually litter, infact when I was walking through the shopping centre earlier on, I held on to some rubbish until I found a bin. As I said, I was just playing by throwing something at my mate, and as silly as it may sound, I didn't think of it as littering.
So any help would be appreciated, and anything else people need to know please ask

[grabrail]

I would have told him to go screw himself, surely a council worker cant fine you. Did he produce any evidence?

He didnt take any money off you did he?

The thing that would worry me is you have given this guy your address.

[Schism]

Originally Posted by grabrail

I would have told him to go screw himself, surely a council worker cant fine you. Did he produce any evidence?

He didnt take any money off you did he?

The thing that would worry me is you have given this guy your address.

Nope, no evidence of who he was.

He didn't take any money off him, and frankly, I don't intend to send the money... It says on the slip I'll be liable to prosecution, but he gave me false information about giving me a caution.

I only thought till afterwards that it was a bit dodgy... although he was wearing a bodywarmer with Mansfield Council on or something.

[the_icks]

Wait for the next series of the Real Hustle!!

Did he give you an official reciept??

[Schism]

Originally Posted by the_icks

Wait for the next series of the Real Hustle!!

Did he give you an official reciept??

Yep... he gave me a slip.

But then, said to my other two mates that theirs will be in the post!?!?

[Naomi101]

Sounds a bit weird to me. To be honest, i'd contest it anyway and ask for solid proof that you did in fact 'litter'. If you just threw a crisp packet at your mate, surely you could still have been intending to pick it up before leaving? Sounds like this guy was on a power trip. I'd fight it all the way (but you know me )

[moviedrome]

Hmm,

Something similar happened to me, but i'm not totally blameless.

I was smoking outside Peterborough train station and I will always put my cig ends in a bin if there is one, i don't just throw them on the floor. However, there was no bin anywhere in sight, i did walk a fair way to check too and so i thought well ok i'll chuck it on the floor as there's millions already there anyway. 5 minutes later, man appears in a jacket - same story £75 fine, but if i paid it in 14 days it reduced to £50.

I paid it but wrote a letter of complaint because there were no bins, and there are now the wall mounted ash trays outside the station.

[myrazorblad]

they dont prosecute you for cautions,
ive had loads lol.

sounds fake to me....

contact manfield council if you really want to.
but being as you gave fake details (best thing to do in your case) i dont think it should matter much to you!

[Schism]

Originally Posted by myrazorblad

they dont prosecute you for cautions,
ive had loads lol.

sounds fake to me....

contact manfield council if you really want to.
but being as you gave fake details (best thing to do in your case) i dont think it should matter much to you!

I gave him real ones! lol.

Originally Posted by Naomi101

Sounds a bit weird to me. To be honest, i'd contest it anyway and ask for solid proof that you did in fact 'litter'. If you just threw a crisp packet at your mate, surely you could still have been intending to pick it up before leaving? Sounds like this guy was on a power trip. I'd fight it all the way (but you know me )

That's a good point you know... we didn't move from that seat the whole time, and I only got up when he told me to walk away, and when I did get up, I did actually put my litter in the bin.

That's a good point to fight

Looks like they'll be coming round my house from Mansfield if they really want the money that bad.

[-null-]

heh you guys should come live where I do. Not only can you throw your rubbish away without worry or being fined but you can let your dog crap all over the pavement as well. In fact the council employee who picks up the litter actually waits outside our local Greggs bakers on school days to pick up the litter as the kids drop it.

What is the actual law about littering. Can you refuse to give your address because tbh I wouldn't want to give that to any tom, dick or harry on the street even one that worked for the council.

[Schism]

Originally Posted by -null-

heh you guys should come live where I do. Not only can you throw your rubbish away without worry or being fined but you can let your dog crap all over the pavement as well. In fact the council employee who picks up the litter actually waits outside our local Greggs bakers on school days to pick up the litter as the kids drop it.

What is the actual law about littering. Can you refuse to give your address because tbh I wouldn't want to give that to any tom, dick or harry on the street even one that worked for the council.

I dunno mate... I was speaking to a taxi driver the same day about it... I asked how much you get fined for speeding, and he said it's usually about £60 if you ain't going that much over...

The ethics are messed, I get charged £75 for dropping a crisp packet, and a driver gets fined £60 for potentially putting someones life at risk... and what I just said is how the government would put it too.

[the_icks]

crisp packets are dangerous

The Bolton News - Blaze started with crisp packet

[Schism]

I'm not saying anything - lol.

[Jon]

I see this from both sides of the coin.

The local youth's "hang out" at the rear of my place of work, leave litter, half eaten food, smashed beer bottles, etch their tags into the door and recently start tearing anything off thats metalic to get scrap value for it. Bring back the cane....

(also councils are spending massive amounts of money each year to clean up chewing gum, only for it to get "spat out" days after they have cleaned the towns streets)

However for 1 bit of litter it is a bit overkill, since it did end up in the bin. However councils are starting to heavily enforce litter and there may well be local bye laws in place permitting them to do this, I know you can get fined in Leeds for droping litter/gum/cig's etc but I am unsure of how the fining business works

[Schism]

I don't want to make myself sound amazing or anything, but I'm not one of these youths that usually do litter or cause havoc... infact I'm quite against making towns look like a dump site.

I was honest with the bloke, gave my real details, agreed what I did was wrong, picked up the litter after me, but then it just took the piss how he still enforced the fine, therefore I have no respect for him, lessening my respect for that council overall. If he let me off, I would have shaken his hand and thanked him for the warning, and I wouldn't have littered there again... and then if my details came up again about littering, then fair enough about the fine.

But it depends where you come from... I've never ever heard of anyone getting fined in Leicester for littering, that's probably why the town is such a state as it's something that seems okay to do... But then going somewhere where it's not, it's weird.

[Emma]

Sometimes you can get a warning i they're feeling nice but generally a £75 is right. You can contest this with the council, particularly if you hadn't actually left the area, and could have put in the bin before you left. Also ask to see a copy of the CCTV/camera evidence they have, and check with the council whether this guy was genuine, they should have names/areas of people that arre patrolling. As far as the different areas go, ie you were in a different area to the one you live, I don't think it would make any difference as you were still littering.

The council who's area you were in will have a licensing department, so it might be worth having a chat to them.

[Schism]

Right, I think I'm gonna leave it until my parents get off holiday and get them to ring up for me.

Thanks a lot for the comments so far, and I will tell them to my parents as some of the ideas

Any more input is welcome though!

[-null-]

I actually wish the council's around here would fine people for littering. I mean I've seen people who have been within a few meters of a bin but they've still just dropped their litter on the ground. I mean really, why should the councils put money into trying to make the place look nice if the people don't care.

Of course there needs to be some council employee other than the traffic warden wandering around. Not that the traffic warden was doing his job either, he was wandering around a pedestrian precinct.

What happened with you was overkill. If anything the council employee who spotted you on CCTV should have told the other guy to keep an eye on you and then, when you got up to leave without picking up your litter fined you.

[Naomi101]

Wish little thugs who intimidate people and make them feel unsafe in their own homes would get caught and fined every time they committed an offence. I'm not saying littering is ok, but they seem to have all this petty legislation that helps them squeeze money out of decent members of the community, and yet no power whatsoever over the real criminals.....but we knew that already

[Larkino]

Originally Posted by -null-

heh you guys should come live where I do. Not only can you throw your rubbish away without worry or being fined but you can let your dog crap all over the pavement as well. In fact the council employee who picks up the litter actually waits outside our local Greggs bakers on school days to pick up the litter as the kids drop it.

What is the actual law about littering. Can you refuse to give your address because tbh I wouldn't want to give that to any tom, dick or harry on the street even one that worked for the council.

Lol, try living in south london , lovely place