Where do I stand.

[grabrail]

Im looking for some advice from someone who may know the law.

I booked a holiday on Monday online through First Choice. All went through ok. It turns out the price we paid included a Credit Charge for paying on the credit card.

This is where it gets whacky. The card we used isnt a credit card but a charge card, so my wife phoned them up and told them we sholdnt have been charged. They then said there is nothing they can do as the payment has gone through. This was about an hour after booking and paying.

We received the invoice today and the charge is there listed as a bank charge, so my wife phoned the bank to get some advice and the bank said that they will not charge First Choice for us using the card as it is not a credit card. But First Choice have still charged us for their "Bank Charge"

So wifey phoned up first choice again and this time they said 2 things, 1) we have to charge you this becasue the bank charges us, then they said there is nothing they can do becuase we didnt cancel the payment within 24hours. My wife told them she had phoned up within the hour and was told they couldnt do anything, they just said they shouldve cancelled it.

Now where do I stand on this, As far as I can see it they have made up a charge that is illegal, but im not sure. What are the chances of getting this money back? And more importantly how do I go about it?

First Choice have quickly become my Last Choice for the future.

Robbing B*st*rds

[Jon]

Its tricky as as far as first choice are concerned they cant tell the difference between most charge cards and credit cards (apart from Diners club which is only a charge card I belive) visa, mastercard and AMEX all serve credit cards and charge cards.

Your bank wouldnt have charged first choice for use of your card if it was a credit card or a charge card (guess only way the bank would charge is if it was a cash withdrawal at the cashpoint, though it would be the bank which the cashpoint beloned to that would be doing the charging I guess)

All payments are done through various merchant card services, which are ran by the banks, but often operated as a seperate company (i.e RBS/Natwest own Streamline, Barclays own Barclays merchant services) its these companies that do the charging (generally from 2-5% of the transaction volume though it can be higher and lower depending on if its a Visa/Mastercard, AMEX or maestro(switch) or visa delta)

While that doesnt really help you with your issues it does give a bit of background information.

My view is that its First Choice havnt been clear in how they communicate the infomation. I would suspect that they get charged if it was a credit card or charge card, as both are generally used under the Visa/Master Card/AMEX logo - i.e they cant tell what type of card it is, other than its a Visa/Mater card etc


I would suggest giving up on phoning them and stick to written communication - it is much easier to have a papertrial.

Ill have a skim over their t+c to see if i can see anything specific that may help you - though I think your best approach would to complain on the grounds their website doesnt provide clear infomation, and complain to any trade body/regulator of which they belong

Looking at their t+c for the different types of holiday they do

Please note that there is a £4 (€6) charge per Credit Card transaction when paying by Visa or Mastercard.

If you choose to pay by credit card, there will be a 2% fee added to your booking. We will send you a confirmation invoice within 10 days. All bookings are subject to these conditions.

My view is that their t+c need clarifiying to change the term credit card to Visa/Mastercard/AMEX/Diners club but im no expert!

[tsnudden]

Now there's a reply ^

[grabrail]

Wow thanks Jon, I was expecting the usual types of responses from people who dont really know and are ill informed. But this does help a lot.

cheers

[the_saint]

(1) Just to clarify, is the Charge Card different to a Debit Card and if so how does it work?

(2) At what point did you find out there was this charge? Pre or post booking?

(3) What is the value of the charge?

(4) When you write to them explain that they have no contractual right to take the money (assuming they don't, subject the charge card definition) and therefore any argument regarding timescales is irrelevant.

(5) Explain that in any case you attempted to reclaim the charge back well within the time limit but were refused. In a later phone call they admitted this was a mistake. Any failure to make a claim within 24 hours was due to a failure on their behalf and they are therefore liable for any losses they suffer as a result.

(6) Plead, in the alternative, that in the circumstances as they have actually not had to pay any bank charges themselves any clause in their T&C's that they seek to rely one will either not be applicable or will constitute a unfair penalty clause.

(7) Then give them 5 working days to return the money or you will write to their local Trading Standards authority, any professional organisation that they have membership of and anyone else I can't think of after a tiring day!

At the end of the day, whatever your legal rights if they are going to stick to their guns it might not prove possible to recover your money.

[grabrail]

Nice 1 cheers saint

Tried to give you rep as well saint, but it wont let me, says ive got to spread the love first

[Jon]

Just to clarify, is the Charge Card different to a Debit Card and if so how does it work?

A charge card is more similar to a credit card than a debit card, in that you have a set credit limit and can only spend to that limit. There is generally no interest, and each month the full balance is paid in full. Companies charge a annual fee for a charge card, so thats how they get their £££ - I guess the most popular use is for companies expenses claims.

(of course after writing all that I found Charge card - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia !)

I also think your point 6 could be wrong, as the bank wouldnt have made a charge to first choice, but the payment processor they use would have

Eitherway they dont define charge card in their t+c

[the_saint]

Originally Posted by Jon

I also think your point 6 could be wrong, as the bank wouldnt have made a charge to first choice, but the payment processor they use would have

Eitherway they dont define charge card in their t+c

I think the issue is more whether they have had to pay a charge regardless of who to and regardless of the type of card. I can't be bothered reading the T&C's to see exactly what they say but if they do mention a payment/processing charge then that is their favour.

Though if they have not had to pay this charge then obviously they can't charge for it.

If they haven't adequately defined charge card then I would suggest a court would interprete that in whatever way necessary to give efficacy to the contract. So if there was a charge as a result of this use it would probably be classed for that purpose as a credit card, but if there wasn't it would be a debit card.

The crux is whether a charge was ever levied against first choice, as none was they can't claim for it.