Legal Action against Freepay

[duhprest]

What options do we have for getting our stuff from freepay. If they're not replying to emails and haven't sent it for 6months, what options do we have?

The reason they're taking their time, to save as much money as possible, is because no one is doing anything. The BBB were the only threat, and now they've backed out as well.

List how long you've been waiting for freepay. 6months on verification on xbox360s and about 10 referrals put on hold on ps3's for no reason, and they've said its too late to do anything because its after the 3months..

[the_saint]

If you are in the UK I would say your chances of taking legal action against them are pretty much none.

Let me clarify, there may be problems with your case itself but you can ignore that as the biggest problem would be how would you do it?

Issue a claim in the US? Well, how are you going to do that from the UK, would be pretty expensive and time consuming all for an Xbox 360 (plus if their system is anything like ours you wouldn't be able to recover the costs for such a small item).

Issue a claim in the UK? Ok, but again you can't recover costs and then you have the cost of registering the judgment in the US. It's relatively straight forward to enforce a judgment in another EU county, though when we did it for a client it did cost about £1,200. For the US I'm guessing it would be a similar figure at least.

Basically all you have is the BBB. Though I note that freepay do pay out in the end so i'm afraid you may just have to wait. That's the thing with freepay, they may be low refs but the support issues etc don't make it worthwhile for me. Prefer to stick to UK sites who take 1 month maximum to deliver (and often much less).

[FurbtasticM]

When I was contemplating it there were various options including both formal proceedings and an adjudication style service. I also found a service provided by student lawyers who take on cases free/cheap for the practice.

I wasn't doing that just to speed things along though. The question in your case is the grounds for the claim. Which contractual term have they broken?

[mcgrou]

Originally Posted by FurbtasticM

When I was contemplating it there were various options including both formal proceedings and an adjudication style service. I also found a service provided by student lawyers who take on cases free/cheap for the practice.

I wasn't doing that just to speed things along though. The question in your case is the grounds for the claim. Which contractual term have they broken?

Term 4, Section A, Part iiiv:

We promise not to be incredibly bloody lazy

[chigley]

People have tried it before, and only one to my knowledge succeeded.

No matter how many times FreePay slow down (and appear dead), they always come back and send out gifts. It sounds nuts but.. just be patient!

[duhprest]

Originally Posted by the_saint

If you are in the UK I would say your chances of taking legal action against them are pretty much none.

Let me clarify, there may be problems with your case itself but you can ignore that as the biggest problem would be how would you do it?

Issue a claim in the US? Well, how are you going to do that from the UK, would be pretty expensive and time consuming all for an Xbox 360 (plus if their system is anything like ours you wouldn't be able to recover the costs for such a small item).

Issue a claim in the UK? Ok, but again you can't recover costs and then you have the cost of registering the judgment in the US. It's relatively straight forward to enforce a judgment in another EU county, though when we did it for a client it did cost about £1,200. For the US I'm guessing it would be a similar figure at least.

Basically all you have is the BBB. Though I note that freepay do pay out in the end so i'm afraid you may just have to wait. That's the thing with freepay, they may be low refs but the support issues etc don't make it worthwhile for me. Prefer to stick to UK sites who take 1 month maximum to deliver (and often much less).

But what about the PS3? Of course, the 360 could be claimed by just looking at what contractual term has been broken, but the PS3 is more of an in-depth issue. How could I pursue and prove that the 10 or so referrals had completed an offer without breaking the rules? Ethically, freepay are breaking a lot of rules here, but society doesn't seem to rule on ethical defects...

[the_saint]

Originally Posted by duhprest

But what about the PS3? Of course, the 360 could be claimed by just looking at what contractual term has been broken, but the PS3 is more of an in-depth issue. How could I pursue and prove that the 10 or so referrals had completed an offer without breaking the rules?

I don't understand what you are talking about? The issues are the same whatever gift you are claiming.

If your sign ups have broken the rules then there is not a lot you can do about that other than get them to appeal. But we all know people break the rules so we can't really complain at Freepay if they do. Besides, you haven't shown any evidence that Freepay have put people on hold erroneously - merely annoyance that you aren't getting you're gift.

Ethically, freepay are breaking a lot of rules here, but society doesn't seem to rule on ethical defects...

Don't get me started. What ethical rules? Where are these ethical rules written down? Who decides whether they have done something wrong ethically? You?! Well that seems ethically wrong to me as you would not be objective.

Perhaps an objective unbiased third party could decide. Would such person be judging the ethics of a situation - perhaps we could call him the judge?

How would he decide whether one party has been acting unethically in these circumstances - i.e. where one person has agreed to do something for another in return for something? Perhaps he could look at what had been agreed between them to see if both parties have done (or failed to do) everything expected of them. Seems like a good idea to me.

So how do we know what was agreed. Perhaps the terms of what was agreed is written down somewhere.

I can't be bothered looking at these but if you think you know which one they have breached then let me know. I'm guessing one of the terms that you agreed with them was that they would have a reasonable time to process your account and a reasonable time to deliver your item.

What is reasonable in these circumstances? Who can say. I can't. Maybe they are still within a reasonable timescale. In which case, how have they broken any ethical rules?

[Norled]

I'm guessing one of the terms that you agreed with them was that they would have a reasonable time to process your account and a reasonable time to deliver your item.

What is reasonable in these circumstances? Who can say. I can't. Maybe they are still within a reasonable timescale. In which case, how have they broken any ethical rules?

He is right, now who said how long a 'reasonable amount of time' is. It's like saying "how long is a piece of string?"

IV. ORDERS

1. Receipt of Product

(a) After a user completes the steps required to receive the product, Gratis Internet will take measures to ensure that the user receives orders within a reasonable amount of time. Delivery times vary amongst product suppliers, but most orders are received within 30 days from placing the order.

[Kizza121]

Originally Posted by duhprest

What options do we have for getting our stuff from freepay. If they're not replying to emails and haven't sent it for 6months, what options do we have?

The reason they're taking their time, to save as much money as possible, is because no one is doing anything. The BBB were the only threat, and now they've backed out as well.

List how long you've been waiting for freepay. 6months on verification on xbox360s and about 10 referrals put on hold on ps3's for no reason, and they've said its too late to do anything because its after the 3months..

Seriously have a cry. If freepay are that bad then go do another site. You will get your item or wateva from freepay soon.

[FurbtasticM]

Originally Posted by Kizza121

Seriously have a cry

Very helpful

[Haggisuk99]

It does however pose a question to why Freepay are still a supported site by Exceem. One of the reasons that we love Exceem is that it will give us the networks that we can trust and since I have been here I have seen nothing that suggests that FreePay should be. This amount of complaints against them for the same thing over and over again should at least make it lose its status for a supported network as this then gives a false impression that the network is good and thus reflects badly on Exceem. This is what I am angry at more than anything is that because it has a supported status within Exceem it is by reflection making our beloved exceem look bad. Jon remove its status or put a poll up that asks whether or not we believe it should lose it please.

[arcticfox]

Originally Posted by Haggisuk99

It does however pose a question to why Freepay are still a supported site by Exceem.

This is asked quite often. It is probably supported because it hasnt ripped off/scammed anyone and is legit.

Yes, I think its crap. Its support is shocking, it doesnt even have the decency to have a representative on exceem and the delays on nearly every stage of getting a freebie are astonishingly bad but they havent scammed anyone.

The members here keep warning people against doing freepain sites but people still do them, knowing them could be in for quite a wait.

As long as freepain have low refs and ringtone offers they will get members to sign up to them. This would happen whatever their status.

"supported" basically just means "trusted"

[Kizza121]

Yer freepay works just takes a long time. But they will get back up to speed hopefully soon.

[duhprest]

Originally Posted by the_saint

I don't understand what you are talking about? The issues are the same whatever gift you are claiming.

If your sign ups have broken the rules then there is not a lot you can do about that other than get them to appeal. But we all know people break the rules so we can't really complain at Freepay if they do. Besides, you haven't shown any evidence that Freepay have put people on hold erroneously - merely annoyance that you aren't getting you're gift.

I agree I have not justified myself fully by showing more annoyance than evidence, however, the point I'm trying to make is that we have no evidence whether they broke the rules or not. Perhaps I have not fully explained myself here. I basically was getting 1-2 greens a week, and then once the surveys had started, I didn't get any greens.
The ones that I got went straight on hold (11 of them), one by one, and there were no more greens coming (I had 8 out of 12 greens). I emailed one of the guys and he said he didn't do anything wrong, was doing everything legit & completed an offer - but then again, I only asked 1 person so couldn't conclusively say that Freepay were deliberately putting these guys on hold.
So from this you can see why I was so suspicious of Freepay and how they may have made a lot of money off me by 'scamming' me and not sending my gift. Perhaps this happened to other people, but then again, they too will not be able to conclusively prove that they were scammed due to lack of evidence.

Originally Posted by the_saint

Don't get me started. What ethical rules? Where are these ethical rules written down? Who decides whether they have done something wrong ethically? You?! Well that seems ethically wrong to me as you would not be objective.

Perhaps an objective unbiased third party could decide. Would such person be judging the ethics of a situation - perhaps we could call him the judge?

How would he decide whether one party has been acting unethically in these circumstances - i.e. where one person has agreed to do something for another in return for something? Perhaps he could look at what had been agreed between them to see if both parties have done (or failed to do) everything expected of them. Seems like a good idea to me.

That's the idea of ethical rules, no one can be a judge and there's no rules to this. Many corporations out there get away with unethical business behaviour, ie. Ignore customer until problem goes away, which works 4/5 times where the customer will forget or ignore the problem.

Originally Posted by the_saint

So how do we know what was agreed. Perhaps the terms of what was agreed is written down somewhere.

I can't be bothered looking at these but if you think you know which one they have breached then let me know. I'm guessing one of the terms that you agreed with them was that they would have a reasonable time to process your account and a reasonable time to deliver your item.

What is reasonable in these circumstances? Who can say. I can't. Maybe they are still within a reasonable timescale. In which case, how have they broken any ethical rules?

Again, because there is no agreement, that I am aware of, of how long it should take, they have again broken the unwritten rules of ethics. They seem to think it is ok for them to take as long as they like and ignore support tickets. But wouldn't you agree it would be unethical to put me on verification for 6 months on an xbox 360, whilst other people receive their gift before me, even though they haven't been waiting as long? Surely you would agree upon this?

Overall, I am slightly suspicious, and confused, as to why you feel so subjective against what I have written. What motive could you have to reply with such integrity? Either you found what I said to be utter nonsense, and were almost disgusted with my logic and wished to defend Freepay's reputation, perhaps Freepay have given you good service for which you wish to defend or you are affiliated with Freepay in some way?

I wish to point out that the point of this thread is that Freepay have crossed the line by not replying to my support tickets and that it's been over 6 months for an xbox 360 to arrive, and this, surely, by any standard is simply not right.

[the_saint]

Overall, I am slightly suspicious, and confused, as to why you feel so subjective against what I have written....Either you found what I said to be utter nonsense, and were almost disgusted with my logic and wished to defend Freepay's reputation, perhaps Freepay have given you good service for which you wish to defend or you are affiliated with Freepay in some way?

I am not affiliated with Freepay neither have ever received anything from them. They are well known to be very slow at everything and for that reason I have avoided them. However I do take issue with some of your points. In fact I don't think I am being "subjective" against you. I am trying to look at it objectively and I think that I am in a better position than you to be so.

Originally Posted by duhprest

I agree I have not justified myself fully by showing more annoyance than evidence, however, the point I'm trying to make is that we have no evidence whether they broke the rules or not.

Doesn't that last bit tell you everything? If you have no evidence someone has done something wrong, surely the starting point should be to assume they haven't done anything wrong until evidence arises to show otherwise?

Perhaps I have not fully explained myself here. I basically was getting 1-2 greens a week, and then once the surveys had started, I didn't get any greens.

Perhaps the surveys put them off? That seems very likely to me.

I emailed one of the guys and he said he didn't do anything wrong, was doing everything legit & completed an offer

Right, but look at it objectively. (a) would you really expect him to know for sure whether or not he broke T&C's or not, and (b) even if he knew he did would you really expect him to tell you that?

That's the idea of ethical rules, no one can be a judge and there's no rules to this.

This sentance is crazy!!! Why call them rules if they are not rules? How can you call them rules if no one can judge them?!

If no one can judge them that suggests that they are not objective standards but are subjective ones. The problem with subjective "rules" is obvious in that different people will have different rules and there is no clear cut "right" or "wrong". So effectively you are moaning that Freepay have breached your idea of what is right and wrong.

Again, because there is no agreement, that I am aware of, of how long it should take, they have again broken the unwritten rules of ethics.

(1) They have not broken any unwritten rules of ethics - if there is no clear cut and unambiguous statement as to what these I don't see how you can say with any certainty that they have.
(2) There is an agreement, see below from terms and unconditions and the point made above about reasonable time made in my previous post.

IV. ORDERS

1. Receipt of Product

(a) After a user completes the steps required to receive the product, Gratis Internet will take measures to ensure that the user receives orders within a reasonable amount of time. Delivery times vary amongst product suppliers, but most orders are received within 30 days from placing the order.

But wouldn't you agree it would be unethical to put me on verification for 6 months on an xbox 360, whilst other people receive their gift before me, even though they haven't been waiting as long? Surely you would agree upon this?

DO you know for sure this has happened? If so I agree it seems unfair, but that said there is nothing in the T&C's saying they would dispatch orders in the order they are received.

it's been over 6 months for an xbox 360 to arrive, and this, surely, by any standard is simply not right.

I disagree. I don't know whether looking at all the circumstances 6 months is reasonable or not. The thing you have to think of when deciding if it is reasonable is that you compare the availability of the same service elsewhere. No where else offers such low ref rates or ringtone offers, so you have to weigh up whether this benefit outweighs the detriment of having long wait times. In the circumstances I really don't think I can say whether it does or not.

I think you also have to look at a person's knowledge when entering the contract. It is well publicised on here that Freepay are notoriously slow. Maybe you knew this or maybe you didn't - only you can answer this honestly - but if you did then obviously that is a factor.

Obviously you have your opinion on whether your wait is reasonable, but I would suggest that I have a more objective viewpoint than you.

[duhprest]

Before this just becomes one long argument, I wish to say that I feel you were subjective to me because mainly of these few sentences,
"Don't get me started. What ethical rules? Where are these ethical rules written down? Who decides whether they have done something wrong ethically? You?! Well that seems ethically wrong to me as you would not be objective.

Perhaps an objective unbiased third party could decide. Would such person be judging the ethics of a situation - perhaps we could call him the judge?"

It seems you agree with most of the first half-ish of what I wrote. I just read about the 'ethic rules not being rules.' What I meant was that they are like common law (ie. there is no murder Act of Parliament, rather it is an unwritten law that you are not allowed to murder.)

As long as the idea of sub/objectivity goes, we both will end up disagreeing with eachother, so i will leave that for others to judge.

Under the T&C you quoted, I think I would have an argument with Freepay there, so thank you for pointing that out

About the assurity of the xbox 360, I have noticed that people kept saying things along the lines of, in the 'I got my free item' forum, 'I finally got my iPod/Games console, etc after 3-5months since completing the requirements,' and here I would be thinking, "Hold on a second, I've been waiting longer than you."

I think that the 6months, by any standard, is definitely unreasonable and who knows how much longer I would have to wait when, and if, which according to people on this forum, the item would arrive. I can understand waiting 2-4months because of 2 or 3 lower referrals than other sites, but half a year is, in my opinion, ridiculous. For a satisfactory service, in my opinion, and the majority may agree with me, would be to send the item within 4 months - but that's only my opinion for which I'm taking into account how long other sites take in comparison to the referral rates.

Opinion, opinion, opinion! :P

[Harvez]

go on google find the county court for newyork, there is a dept for civil action its a free service and they will contact freepay with ur concerns, it resolved mine and a few friends issues.
you will have to phone them 4pm is best and explain from scratch how its all come about,they will need ur ref code when u joined your name email home addy blar blar basicly everything they can use so freepay know who you are.

first they will send a letter to which freepay have 10 days to reply, not sure what happens after that as everyone i know got a result within the 10 days lol.

search for posts i made about freepay last year prob has more details.

[mcgrou]

Originally Posted by harvez

go on google find the county court for newyork, there is a dept for civil action its a free service and they will contact freepay with ur concerns, it resolved mine and a few friends issues.
you will have to phone them 4pm is best and explain from scratch how its all come about,they will need ur ref code when u joined your name email home addy blar blar basicly everything they can use so freepay know who you are.

first they will send a letter to which freepay have 10 days to reply, not sure what happens after that as everyone i know got a result within the 10 days lol.

search for posts i made about freepay last year prob has more details.

Thanks very much for that - I have now bookmarked this page so that I will have this info for future reference (although I doubt I will ever use freepay again )

[the_saint]

Originally Posted by duhprest

Before this just becomes one long argument, I wish to say that I feel you were subjective to me because mainly of these few sentences,

They were expressing my incredulity at the "ethical" argument you raised, not the set of circumstances. And I think you meant biased rather than subjective.

What I meant was that they are like common law (ie. there is no murder Act of Parliament, rather it is an unwritten law that you are not allowed to murder.)

Hang on, there is no statute in respect of Murder but there is few hundred years of case law setting out the legal position on a multitude of aspects of the crime. As we live in a common law jurisdiction this case law is not an unwritten law but a clearly defined body of law defining the crime. The same cannot be said about the definition of "reasonable" in these types of cases, or indeed in most occasions where the word is used in a legal sense. All we can do is look at the factors used in similar contracts for an indication as to what a court would look at, which I listed above.

Under the T&C you quoted, I think I would have an argument with Freepay there, so thank you for pointing that out

I never said there wasn't an argument, I just said that the issue is what is reasonable and the answer as to what reasonable is isn't clear and it isn't found in the T&C's. What I said was that the use of "ethics" in this type of case is a pretty wishy washy argument which as I've stated above varies from person to person.

About the assurity of the xbox 360, I have noticed that people kept saying things along the lines of, in the 'I got my free item' forum, 'I finally got my iPod/Games console, etc after 3-5months since completing the requirements,' and here I would be thinking, "Hold on a second, I've been waiting longer than you."

But only by a month. If the typical is 3-5 months then OK 6 months is longer than that, but I don't know if one month longer than this is enough to be an "unreasonable" amount of time.

In any event, as I said I don't feel I can really say whether or not 6 months is unreasonable or not. But it seems to me that everyone who waits longer than a couple of months starts getting twitchy and thinking it is unreasonable.

In any event you have been a member since 2006, a few minutes researching them before you started would have told you all you need to know about them. Obviously it's too late now, but the moral for any new people reading this is to research a network before you start.

[Norled]

Originally Posted by harvez

go on google find the county court for newyork, there is a dept for civil action its a free service and they will contact freepay with ur concerns, it resolved mine and a few friends issues.
you will have to phone them 4pm is best and explain from scratch how its all come about,they will need ur ref code when u joined your name email home addy blar blar basicly everything they can use so freepay know who you are.

first they will send a letter to which freepay have 10 days to reply, not sure what happens after that as everyone i know got a result within the 10 days lol.

search for posts i made about freepay last year prob has more details.

Hopefully duhprest willl do this and Freepay will then know that they might be in trouble and give out everyones freebie!?