Fox Hunting

[eonbar]

fox hunting is disgusting. i lived in a small little village and decided to go on one of these hunts because i had no opinion about them and wanted to gain 1st hand knowledge before deciding one. my friends at uni class me as the whole 'fox hunting, polo playing, private school going' person, just cos im from hampshire ad have the accent, so i guess i maybe in that middle class bracket. the hunt i went on was so 'rahrah' with everyone dressing up, galavanting around the countryside, getting a kick out of hunting and killing these foxes. everyone was laughing and cheering when the foxes were brought in, and with one of the foxes the lead guy had to snap its neck because although unconscious it was still alive. also i didnt see it but ive heard of foxes being chased and just dieing becuase they're scare to death? this definatly isnt the way to control the countryside pest problem which i dont deny they are...

there's too much formality, joy and gamesmanship surrounding it in my opinion... its more a sport than a way to cull....

[delude]

Did anyone else see the Banksy exhibition in Bristol? He mixed his artwork alongside everything else in the museum, and quite clearly has a strong view on fox hunting if he decided to put this there:

[cameronlaw]

Would you like it if it was the other way round?

[SometingStu]

Originally Posted by cameronlaw

Would you like it if it was the other way round?

That's ludicrous, we don't use rifles at all.

That's the thing, my uncle goes shooting and has fun (I'm talking 99% clay pigeon shooting and the odd rabbit is shot) and by all means have fun shooting, but don't run around for a few hours in a forest just so some dogs can savage a wolf.

And for the love of god, don't wipe a kids face with the soggy end of a fox's tail.

[cameronlaw]

Originally Posted by SometingStu

That's ludicrous, we don't use rifles at all.

Yeah - but don't you think humans have a bit of a unfair advantage - lots of horses, dogs, all against 1 fox...

The rifle just makes it a bit fairer

[delude]

Originally Posted by cameronlaw

*snip*

Would you like it if it was the other way round?

I know what you're saying, but that picture just promotes hunting. It's obviously taken by someone that has killed the animals, so is just taking the piss.

Originally Posted by SometingStu

That's ludicrous, we don't use rifles at all.

That's the thing, my uncle goes shooting and has fun (I'm talking 99% clay pigeon shooting and the odd rabbit is shot) and by all means have fun shooting, but don't run around for a few hours in a forest just so some dogs can savage a wolf.

And for the love of god, don't wipe a kids face with the soggy end of a fox's tail.

I'd have loads of fun shooting an odd uncle or two of yours...I hope you don't see anything wrong with that, just me having some 'fun shooting'. Sometimes you need to see that moral issues need to come above fun.

[SometingStu]

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Bill Bailey in one of his stand ups said "You see it all just seems a bit unfair really, I wouldn't mind it so much if it was one tof against 1 fox, mano un mano....

...have you seen those signs that say. "Hunting Is natural, even foxes do it" Yeah... but they're not on the back of pigs, with a slavering pack of shrews."

Was funny when I watched it but does demonstrate something.

[cameronlaw]

Originally Posted by delude

I know what you're saying, but that picture just promotes hunting. It's obviously taken by someone that has killed the animals, so is just taking the piss.

Sorry guys, didn't see it like that.

I personally think that fox hunting is pathetic. The people who do it must get some sort of kick out of exercising their power over a smaller, less intelligent creature than themselves.

[SometingStu]

Originally Posted by delude

I know what you're saying, but that picture just promotes hunting. It's obviously taken by someone that has killed the animals, so is just taking the piss.


I'd have loads of fun shooting an odd uncle or two of yours...I hope you don't see anything wrong with that, just me having some 'fun shooting'. Sometimes you need to see that moral issues need to come above fun.

Yeah but would you eat my uncle?

You wouldn't eat a fox either.

That's the problem, you would eat beef, pork, chicken etc... but you wouldn't eat a fox or a human.

When I said shooting I said Clay pigeon's and the last time he killed a rabbit was about 1 year ago.

[delude]

Originally Posted by SometingStu

Yeah but would you eat my uncle?

You wouldn't eat a fox either.

That's the problem, you would eat beef, pork, chicken etc... but you wouldn't eat a fox or a human.

When I said shooting I said Clay pigeon's and the last time he killed a rabbit was about 1 year ago.

The way you worded your post came across to me as 'he has fun shooting and only kills a few rabbits', nothing to do with eating...

I could respond by saying 'Last time I murdered someone was like what, 2 years ago? Maybe a bit longer?' - but I wont go that far, I do understand what you mean.

[bmh16]

Originally Posted by delude

The way you worded your post came across to me as 'he has fun shooting and only kills a few rabbits', nothing to do with eating...

I could respond by saying 'Last time I murdered someone was like what, 2 years ago? Maybe a bit longer?' - but I wont go that far, I do understand what you mean.

In the end of the day what is the difference between killing a small animal such as a beatle and a bigger one? Where does the line get drawn and why? If you saw someone kill a beatle would you want to go up and eat them?

[kevan321]

Originally Posted by bmh16

In the end of the day what is the difference between killing a small animal such as a beatle and a bigger one? Where does the line get drawn and why? If you saw someone kill a beatle would you want to go up and eat them?

But if you crush a bug it'll die in an instant. It wont suffer.

If you tortured it til it dies then that's just as wrong

[TheDoctor]

Originally Posted by SometingStu

That's the problem, you would eat beef, pork, chicken etc... but you wouldn't eat a fox or a human.

Vegetarians like myself don't....

[bmh16]

Originally Posted by kevan321

But if you crush a bug it'll die in an instant. It wont suffer.

If you tortured it til it dies then that's just as wrong

Another interesting topic. How can we define what is and isn't wrong? These fox hunters do it and so don't think it is wrong so how can you prove this is wrong?

Going off on a tangent here but been looking to put this into a topic somewhere recently!

[kevan321]

Originally Posted by bmh16

Another interesting topic. How can we define what is and isn't wrong? These fox hunters do it and so don't think it is wrong so how can you prove this is wrong?

Going off on a tangent here but been looking to put this into a topic somewhere recently!

It's not something you prove, it's merely an opinion.

If the majority are of a certain opinion, then that's generally what is considered right. Not always the case tho.

[FurbtasticM]

Originally Posted by bmh16

Another interesting topic. How can we define what is and isn't wrong?

You define it in terms of the "normal population". There will also be minorities on the extremes but the democratic majority will tend to set the standards, through a combination of upbringing, education and law of the land.

Different societies will have different norms though. The Koreans eat dog, the French eat horse and the Welsh have sheep......

Furbs

[TEMPLE3188]

I agree with previous comments made, it's disgusting. People who hunt animals as a hobby are disgusting.

How you can you call these animals pests for doing what their natural instincts tell them to do! I am not going to got too much into it, but it's nature that foxes are getting at livestock, because their carnivores, like most of us, and need to eat.

Do you have any pets Ben? Do you have a dog? What would you say to me if I walked up to your dog with a shotgun and killed it and my defense would be that I am a dog hunter and they're a pest. Is that any different from shooting the fox? The fox has a family too, what makes your dog have the right to live over a fox, nothing.

When you watch the news and witness that someone has been murdered, gunned down for no reason, what is your reaction, do you think it's inhumane? What gives you the right to choose what life has more value over another?

We are all animals, I see nothing wrong with killing an animal for food, because that's natural, we need to eat to survive, but to kill an animal for doing what it's supposed to be doing labeling it as a 'pest' is inhumane in my opinion

[mcgrou]

Originally Posted by TEMPLE3188

How you can you call these animals pests for doing what their natural instincts tell them to do! I am not going to got too much into it, but it's nature that foxes are getting at livestock, because they're carnivores, like most of us, and need to eat.

Fox repeatedly killed my Grandad's chickens, at least 3/4 times in as many years. It would get into the hut, bite all their throats and skulk away. It never ate any of them, it just killed them.

Saying that, I am against the method in which fox hunting is implemented nowadays. It's almost ritualistic (anyone read Lord of the Flies?) and the fact that it has become a sport is kinda horrible. I'm not against a culling of fox numbers, if that is what is needed to help our environment/eco-system flourish, but there must be a more humane way to do it in this day and age.

As I'm only quite young, I don't think I have enough "life experience" (there's gotta be a less cheesy word for that) to make my opinions quite as black & white and most people in this thread.

[bmh16]

Originally Posted by mcgrou

Fox repeatedly killed my Grandad's chickens, at least 3/4 times in as many years. It would get into the hut, bite all their throats and skulk away. It never ate any of them, it just killed them.

My point exactly as it has happened with us as said! Sick creatures.

Originally Posted by TEMPLE3188

I agree with previous comments made, it's disgusting. People who hunt animals as a hobby are disgusting.

How you can you call these animals pests for doing what their natural instincts tell them to do! I am not going to got too much into it, but it's nature that foxes are getting at livestock, because their carnivores, like most of us, and need to eat.

Do you have any pets Ben? Do you have a dog? What would you say to me if I walked up to your dog with a shotgun and killed it and my defense would be that I am a dog hunter and they're a pest. Is that any different from shooting the fox? The fox has a family too, what makes your dog have the right to live over a fox, nothing.

When you watch the news and witness that someone has been murdered, gunned down for no reason, what is your reaction, do you think it's inhumane? What gives you the right to choose what life has more value over another?

We are all animals, I see nothing wrong with killing an animal for food, because that's natural, we need to eat to survive, but to kill an animal for doing what it's supposed to be doing labeling it as a 'pest' is inhumane in my opinion

The argument against killing a pet that is ridiculous!! It's not like you keep a fox and get attached to it is it Either way any dog which attacks livestock shouldn't be allowed to live anyway and a fox is so the same thing.

What gives the right for us to choose? Uh, i guess you must be a vegetarian then, as it would be pretty ironic if you ate fish or any animal form now wouldn't it! Ok, i just read that it is ok to kill for food. You are sidetracking mate. What is the difference between shooting foxes to keep their numbers down to protect farming livestock, to just us eating for pleasure especially with the wastage in this society. A lot of people probably leave half of it and if no one wasted then the amount of food we would need would be significantly less and so the slaughter of less animals would be happening. I never waste food, and i hate it whenever i see waste and when i go to restaurants and see people leave half their plates i feel very annoyed as the wastage in today's society is sickening. Getting besides the point there i guess but it still has a certain validity in a thread like this as due to the amount of wastage we wouldn't need to slaughter as much animals as we do for food then would we! Comparing a human's life to a animal's life was also a poor argument as you are basically saying it is ok to kill anything for food. You don't seriously kill people to eat do you!?!?

[Moofassa]

Can I just reiterate what I said on the first page. I have noticed that people often form an opinion VERY quickly on this issue. Banning Fox-Hunting has many implications - many that you wouldn't think about.

I invite you to consider the following:


1)Hunts play an active role in conserving the rural landscape - and have done so for generations. This is not just about controlling fox numbers, but maintaining the country in a natural state, hunt funds keep hedgerows and thickets in good condition and prevent them from being lost to fields/farms/development. Many species live in this important habitat, which is being lost all over the country.

2) A Fox is not always killed. Hounds occasionally lose the scent, or the Fox may escape. The attraction of the hunt is not in the kill, but in the chase.

3) Current law now means that foxes have to be snared or shot. Shooting/snaring in the hands of inexperianced people can be much more inhumane than hunting with appropriate dogs. Properly trained dogs will kill by biting the neck - quick and relatively painless compared to being wounded or badly snared and dying slowly.
Of course some dogs are not properly trained and some foxes do die painfully while hunting, but this is a minority of hunts and they should not represent the majority.

4) Continuing from my previous point, many people who hunt have the greatest regard for animal welfare, e.g. stables owners, some farmers, and it is because of this they favour the beagle pack method rather than shooting.

5) Some people think foxes don't need to be controlled but they do, many wildlife reserves e.g. RSPB have to cull foxes in sanctuaries to prevent the birds from being wiped out. Would it be better that an experianced hunt control numbers or that inexperianced bid sanctuary rangers are entrusted to the task?

6) Not all hunters are upper class. This is a stereotypical view of hunting, and if you believe that hunting should be banned because upper class people do it then that is absurd. This is 21st century Britain, and not only have class lines blurred, but they should not shape our opinons. Not everyone who hunts is "upper class", not everyone that is "upper class" hunts.

7) From a legal standpoint, there is inconsistancy in the law. Why precisely has huntign been banned, when other forms of hunting remain - such as deer stalking and fishing?

8) If you are an animal rights protester, you will find that there are many more pressing issues than hunting that demand your attention. What about recent stories that staff in "gold standard" abertoires were torturing the animals prior to their deaths? Fox-hunting, when done properly is not nearly as cruel.

Please, read my points carefully and fully before making a reply (it took a while to type this and I'd prefer that my time hadn't been wasted, no-one seemed to read or take notice of my first comment). I do not "hate" animals. and I want discuss this issue in a mature way.

I have explained the reasons for my opinion, and feel free to disagree with me if you want - just explain the reasons for it and i'll be happy to debate.