Should we allow gays to marry?

[the_icks]

Originally Posted by Monkeyegg

You get gay animals in the wild, so that indicates it is completely natural.



I'm sorry, must be in a silly mood but the above literally made me laugh out loud... I'm not even going to ask if you've ever had it pushed in your face, but that brought up all kinds of images!

lol!! you are turning into me!! (could have been worse, he could have said 'rammed down my throat')

[sgll]

haha monkeyegg. made me chuckle

and the answer the the question. yeh why not? id prefer that than bloody celebs buying their rights to adopt and pick any kid. thats disgusting how they get away with that. all cos they are of higher status.. makes me mad

[Schism]

Originally Posted by Monkeyegg

I'm sorry, must be in a silly mood but the above literally made me laugh out loud... I'm not even going to ask if you've ever had it pushed in your face, but that brought up all kinds of images!

Originally Posted by the_icks

lol!! you are turning into me!! (could have been worse, he could have said 'rammed down my throat')

Haha, well either way, I wouldn't want it like that! It annoys me if a straight couple are like it in public too ;p

Originally Posted by the_icks

hmmm.. an interesting debate this one.

I also think it is quite funny that when people think of gays as parents they automatically presume 2 dads... and that somehow the children might catch 'gayness'!!

I have a fair few gay friends ranging from the 'you wouldnt know unless you knew' to the stereotypical screaming queens (who make Dale Winton look like Mike Tyson)

I have no problem at all with gay adoption, what children need is a stable home environment, most families these days are lacking a positive male role model, why can't a gay man fill that role??

It's not the idea of a gay couple adopting, it's the fact that the kid will probably be bullied still at this day in age for such a thing.

[eonbar]

i dont think gay people should be aloud to marry. its a religious concept which should be made exclusive to men and women.

im all in favor of civil partnerships tho (which i think men and women can get also if they're not religious / are getting married for a second time or something).

either way im not against homosexual partnerships (where you apear to the state as a couple for tax reasons, legal implications, and such), just marriage should be left to what its meant to be about, which in our culture is men/women procreative partnerships.

state and religion should be kept seperate.

[the_icks]

Originally Posted by Schism

Haha, well either way, I wouldn't want it like that! It annoys me if a straight couple are like it in public too ;p



It's not the idea of a gay couple adopting, it's the fact that the kid will probably be bullied still at this day in age for such a thing.

kids can also be bullied for havig fat parents, ugly parents, smelly parents, ... why should having caring gay parents be any different?

[the_icks]

Originally Posted by Schism

Haha, well either way, I wouldn't want it like that! It annoys me if a straight couple are like it in public too ;p



It's not the idea of a gay couple adopting, it's the fact that the kid will probably be bullied still at this day in age for such a thing.

kids can also be bullied for havig fat parents, ugly parents, smelly parents, posh ... why should having caring gay parents be any different?

[Schism]

Originally Posted by eonbar

i dont think gay people should be aloud to marry. its a religious concept which should be made exclusive to men and women.

im all in favor of civil partnerships tho (which i think men and women can get also if they're not religious / are getting married for a second time or something).

either way im not against homosexual partnerships (where you apear to the state as a couple for tax reasons, legal implications, and such), just marriage should be left to what its meant to be about, which in our culture is men/women procreative partnerships.

state and religion should be kept seperate.

Fair point actually, although, are you saying that a gay couple shouldn't be allowed everything that a straight couple are allowed in marriage? The ceremony etc?

Also, state is based on Christian rules?

[the_icks]

that is much the same as saying gay couples shouldnt be buried together!!

it is a ridiculous thing to say.

[Schism]

Originally Posted by the_icks

kids can also be bullied for havig fat parents, ugly parents, smelly parents, ... why should having caring gay parents be any different?

Yeah but taking away one of the things that they can be bullied for would help too.

I guess it's down to the child too, it's a shame a baby couldn't make their mind up - lol.

[bmh16]

The whole point of marriage is that of religious descent between a man and a woman. I don't see why gays would want to get married with such a past as it started with Christianity and christianity is against gay relationships ....

I think always the best environment for a child to grow up in is that with a man and a woman. Obviously with so many single parents these days (i kind of blame for the demise of so many youngsters these days) that kind of isn't so big. The few gay relationships i have heard of generally are rather short lasting and not life lasting not the ideal environment for a child but i might be generalising what i have seen here and might be wrong... Ultimately its the child that is the most important - divorcing/splitting up not only buggers up a lot of children but also the relationship with the parents themselves.

Bullying is another big feature. I don't care if people think fat parents make a child get bullied, that's nonsense. I know so many parents who are overweight and are generally highly respected (generally the rugby guys who have the beer belly!). But with gay parents i can guarantee in secondary school at least the child will be bullied like ****. Being only recently in secondary school i know that would be the case whether you disagree with me or not.

Not that it is a subject that is that related to a thread like this but thought i would say i was disgusted when i heard homosexuality was on labour's agenda to be taught in primary schools. That made me so angry. I am against any teaching of sex in primaries anyway, you DON'T need that teaching in primary schools and it is downright sick to even be considered imo. 1 thing i said about the BNP i completely agreed with on QT as they also are against teaching about sex in primary schools.

[Schism]

Originally Posted by bmh16

The whole point of marriage is that of religious descent between a man and a woman. I don't see why gays would want to get married with such a past as it started with Christianity and christianity is against gay relationships ....

I'm not religious, and I've been told I'm going to hell by some Christians for not following their beliefs, am I not allowed to be married either?

[bmh16]

Originally Posted by Schism

I'm not religious, and I've been told I'm going to hell by some Christians for not following their beliefs, am I not allowed to be married either?

I'm saying it is from religious descent between a man and a woman. Nothing about a man and a man so as it has no connections i see no reason why 2 gays would want marriage?

[oXoDCoXo]

Originally Posted by bmh16

The few gay relationships i have heard of generally are rather short lasting and not life lasting not the ideal environment for a child but i might be generalising what i have seen here and might be wrong...

My cousin is gay, and married (or civil-partnershiped... or woteva you wanna call it) since he has been married to him there havent been any problems but when he wasnt married he was going through men like there was no tomorrow

So from what I know once they are married its alot more stable compared to when they are just 'goin out'

Originally Posted by bmh16

Ultimately its the child that is the most important - divorcing/splitting up not only buggers up a lot of children but also the relationship with the parents themselves.

agree

Originally Posted by bmh16

But with gay parents i can guarantee in secondary school at least the child will be bullied like ****. Being only recently in secondary school i know that would be the case whether you disagree with me or not.

and im going to disagree, I go to an all boys school and the gay kids or the odd one with the gay parent dont get it hard at all, whether thats because its an all boys school i dont really know. However everybody I know that doesnt go to the school is like... 'well why dont they get bullied' as they think everybody that goes to my school will get bullied and if your gay there is an even bigger chance, but its just not the case... although the kids that are screaming homo queens and bitch about everyone do get it abit, but its mainly to get them to calm down... i wouldnt really call it bullying.

[eonbar]

i gotta agree with bmh16. i dont think gay people should get 'married' in the same way as no-christian people would get married.

and to icks, getting burried together is a completly different concept to no getting married. non-christians get burried because its a spiritual thing, not a religious thing, but non-christians (as in real hardened athiest) do get burried. its more a concept throughout the world about honoring and respecting the dead, whether it be by cremation, burrying, or 'sending to davey jones' locker' .... marriage on the other hand, from what i gather in all religons, is between men and women (singular or plural) ...

and to schism if you asked me i wouldn't say 'no marriage' but i would ask why? if me, as a christian, wanted a bar mitzvah, just becuase i lived in a country where the dominant population was jewish and it was the social norm, then i would fully expect someone to ask why ..?

just gotta add that im not being reude, derogitory, saying people shouldn't marry etc ... just dont think that dogmatic social factors should be the reason that people have a loving, caring 'marrage' as apposed to a loving, caring 'civil ceremony' ...

and as always,

[eonbar]

and yeh, sexuality is a greater thing to be bullied over, as apposed to weight, glasses, nerdy etc. there was a guy in my school who was very christian, church on sundays, bible by the bed kinda guy, but for whatever medical reasons got circumcised, and even tho he was popular got picked on for that. people bully what scares them, and sexuality etc is something that people generally feel inadiquate about. (hense all the advertising showing, 'get this and get sexier') ...

[barcelonic]

Originally Posted by elliotknell

Genetically you can't be born gay. It's against nature, so i don't think it should be legal. Saying that you can't help it isn't true, it is not a natural occurence.

Firstly, as Monkeyegg said, animals are gay too so of course its natural.
Secondly, my cousin is gay and he only knew when he was in his mid to late teens, but if you ask his parents, my parents or pretty much anyone else in the family, they will tell you that they always knew he'd be gay from a young age - the signs were all there.

[corky20]

I don't have a problem with it at all, everyone for their own. I don't agree that just because they are gay they should not have the same rights as everyone else. If you are gay you are gay. In this day and age it has become more acceptable, so I don't see why anyone should have the power to tell them you can't do this or this, it's stereotyping!

[the_saint]

Originally Posted by barcelonic

Ye totally - im for ppl's freedom to do what makes them happy. The only thing i wud say is we shouldnt teach kids about homosexuality in schools. It's not going to stop gay kids having a hard time in school, and its not wise to teach young children they can choose their sexuality

Why not teach them? Surely they are just going to get confused about it later when they encounter it. Just teach in a matter of fact way. No one knows for sure whether it is a nature or nurture thing, so don't teach it as either.

Originally Posted by elliotknell

Genetically you can't be born gay. It's against nature, so i don't think it should be legal. Saying that you can't help it isn't true, it is not a natural occurence.

As Monkeyegg said there are instances of homosexual birds, monkeys and dolphins on record.

I used to live with a psychology student who told me how it fits in with the theory of evolution and does make sense, but I was very drunk at the time and don't remember the details of how unfortunately!!

Originally Posted by Maxx

Yes, it is possible to be born gay, as you can be born with the chromosomes of the opposite gender.

You're getting confused. You can be born with various genetic mutation like Klinefelters or Turners where affect your gender chromosomes and make gender difficult to label, such as XXY for example. You can even be XX but have one or more genes from the Y chromosome transpose across. I read a paper which said that the part of the Y chromosome that makes you male is tiny and can be isolated and put into a female at the embryonic stage and change their phenotype completely.

And even if Lady GaGa is intersex, I still would!!

[oXoDCoXo]

Originally Posted by the_saint

As Monkeyegg said there are instances of homosexual birds, monkeys and dolphins on record.

my dog mounts other male dogs in the park (he's a sucker for the chocolate Labrador)

Originally Posted by the_saint

And even if Lady GaGa is intersex, I still would!!

intersex meaning she has both... or am i not getting this (i best not say or am i confused in this thread )

if she has both then i would stay WELL away

[delude]

The thing that worries me is how children would act with two father figures? Would they grow up believing that their parents are just part of the norm and so be led to live their lives the same?