Illegal Downloading of Software - Justified?

[-null-]

Originally Posted by Jon

To add something, Microsoft have essentially given away Windows 7 for free untill March 2010 (thats when it goes into turn off every 2 hours mode), im going to download the RC and give it a go, obviously I can revert back to good old XP when the RC period finishes, but I think this is MS combating software piracy head on by giving people the full product, with no nasty trogens programmed in (does this ever happen?), letting them get used to it, then letting them pay to keep it running after. They do with is MS office to I think a 60 day free trial.

According to a guy I know who has a friend that works for MS, no. Every crack is a trojan.

I'm currently running Windows 7 and have been since the beta. And I doubt I will go back to XP but instead will buy a copy of Windows 7. I'm used to it now and going back would be too much hassle.

And barcelonic it is as simple as black and white. Downloading music or movies or software without paying for it is theft.

However I do agree that if the industry made these things more accessible it would prevent some of this theft. For example if there is a single song I want now I will look on iTunes and pay the 79p or whatever it is for it instead of downloading illegally.

[kevan321]

If it's something I know and like I'll buy the album, if it's something I don't know, I'd just download it then maybe buy their next album or go to a gig. I hate buying an album then it just ends up rubbish

[delude]

Originally Posted by -null-

According to a guy I know who has a friend that works for MS, no. Every crack is a trojan.

Well...not in that sense.

Originally Posted by -null-

And barcelonic it is as simple as black and white. Downloading music or movies or software without paying for it is theft.

Can you not see what I said, if someone would never even touch the software, and no intention to ever buy it, but went on to like it and buy a student copy, upgrades etc then this is a plus to the company?

[kevan321]

Originally Posted by delude

Can you not see what I said, if someone would never even touch the software, and no intention to ever buy it, but went on to like it and buy a student copy, upgrades etc then this is a plus to the company?

That's it exactly.

A good example would be autoCAD, I downloaded that illegally and taught myself how to use it. Now over summer I'm in a job where I'm using it daily, and , if I work for them when I graduate, my work will have to pay for a licence for me to use it. That wouldn't happen if I hadn't originally downloaded a free copy.

Autodesk clearly realise how much they can make from this as they now let engineering students download all of their most up to date software for free, the idea being if I can use the most advanced version the company is more likely to spend the extra money

[bmh16]

I will say i illegally download software. I have no intention of learning the software and using the full features of it. Just want the basic experience. Though with Logic Studio i will buy that when the new version comes out as that is one piece of software i intend to learn etc. If i were to buy all software i have i wouldn't be able to afford it and i wouldn't buy it anyway so whilst i am not condoning my activities no one loses out really?

[-null-]

Originally Posted by delude

Can you not see what I said, if someone would never even touch the software, and no intention to ever buy it, but went on to like it and buy a student copy, upgrades etc then this is a plus to the company?

It is still theft regardless of whether someone goes on to buy the software. If you steal a car and take it for a joy ride then decide you liked it so much you go and buy that make of car does that mean you initial theft is no longer illegal.

Just because it benefits the company in the long run doesn't make it any less illegal. And in that sense it is black and white.

[barcelonic]

Originally Posted by -null-

It is still theft regardless of whether someone goes on to buy the software. If you steal a car and take it for a joy ride then decide you liked it so much you go and buy that make of car does that mean you initial theft is no longer illegal.

i have to say thats a terrible analogy. the reason being that if you steal a car you are taking the car away from them, hence depriving someone of its use/sale. if you were to build exactly the same car yourself (which is what we are talking about - COPYING) then no-one is losing out unless you decide the car is worth paying for yet keep it without paying.

this is why i am saying that it isnt as black and white as walking into a shop and stealing something.

[delude]

Originally Posted by -null-

It is still theft regardless of whether someone goes on to buy the software. If you steal a car and take it for a joy ride then decide you liked it so much you go and buy that make of car does that mean you initial theft is no longer illegal.

Just because it benefits the company in the long run doesn't make it any less illegal. And in that sense it is black and white.

You can't relate this to stealing a car, or anything else but downloading software. It doesn't work, obviously stealing a car affects a lot of people but if you read my examples then you will see that at the point you are either learning to use the software, or deleting it, the companies are not losing anything.

@Barcelonic, I need to spread the love before repping you

[-null-]

So basically it's OK to illegally download software because it's a copy

Your argument just doesn't work for me. Saying it means people will end up buying the software because they've been using it...that's what software demos are for. The big problem with that is that most demos are never long enough for a proper evaluation and not every company provides them. Or are you saying that mistake by software companies in not providing longer evaluations justifies downloading it illegally.

And what about all the people who don't buy the software but continue to use the illegal copy (the 'C' people). Or download an illegal copy of something that they then use for only one project which they make money from. Or download a game which they play until completion then delete. Since those in the latter 2 cases will cease using the software after a short period does that make it OK since they are essentially doing the same as those that use the software, decide they don't like it and delete it.

Re-reading your post barcelonic, your right the industry does need change. But just because it is easier to take something without paying for it doesn't make it OK to do so.

[barcelonic]

Firstly piracy is against civil law but not criminal law unless you are profiting from the piracy commercially. So even the law recognises that this isnt strictly a crime but merely an infringement of an intellectual property. We've had this situation before with VCRs, and even the first MP3 player (the makers of the Rio were sued).

Originally Posted by -null-

So basically it's OK to illegally download software because it's a copy
thats not the reason i gave, thats just the reason for why your analogy was a poor one

Your argument just doesn't work for me. Saying it means people will end up buying the software because they've been using it...that's what software demos are for. The big problem with that is that most demos are never long enough for a proper evaluation and not every company provides them. Or are you saying that mistake by software companies in not providing longer evaluations justifies downloading it illegally.
i feel u are putting words in my mouth

And what about all the people who don't buy the software but continue to use the illegal copy (the 'C' people). Or download an illegal copy of something that they then use for only one project which they make money from. Or download a game which they play until completion then delete. Since those in the latter 2 cases will cease using the software after a short period does that make it OK since they are essentially doing the same as those that use the software, decide they don't like it and delete it.
in any of those scenarios you've described, if they were never going to buy that software then it does not matter as the makers have not lost a penny, but may still gain in the future

Re-reading your post barcelonic, your right the industry does need change. But just because it is easier to take something without paying for it doesn't make it OK to do so.
I refuse to label millions of good, honest people as criminals simply because technology has evolved beyond the control of the rights-holders. In the past whenever this has happened (eg.. the VCR) the rights-holders have panicked but all has worked itself out in the end. I believe that now the rights-holders have given up trying to adapt and are instead desperately fighting to the death, when they know there is no hope of their current strategy doing anything other than damage limitation (and taking good people down with them)

[-null-]

Double post, sorry

But it occurred to me I might not have been clear. When I said it was black and white I was talking from a legal stand point.

[barcelonic]

Originally Posted by -null-

Double post, sorry

no worries i managed to sneak in b4 u lol

[stee67]

first of all I disagree with most of u buffters, the price of such packages as Photoshop/ flash etc. is only reasonable for someone who is already receiving a substantial wage package, by downloading these packages gives the user the time to learn and fine tune there skills which ultimately improves the chances for employment in the industry, this in turns allows them to buy the packages legally, giving Microsoft and adobe there well earned cash. yes there is the option of getting a students licence but nobody want to put time and effort into creating something original to have a dirty big logo itched on top of it.

peace

[-null-]

And you managed to sneak in before me again

Sorry barcelonic I wasn't just answering you but delude as well. It seemed to me that person A (and person B I guess) was essentially using the illegal software as a extended demo.

in any of those scenarios you've described, if they were never going to buy that software then it does not matter as the makers have not lost a penny, but may still gain in the future

It costs money to develop software so why should a software company not be paid for that even if someone is only using that software on one project. Or only plays that game once.

You mentioning VCRs, I seem to recall watching something about music pirating. It was talking about how an album (think it was Thriller actually) was one of the most copied albums on music cassette and yet it still sold millions.

[kevan321]

Originally Posted by stee67

first of all I disagree with most of u buffters, the price of such packages as Photoshop/ flash etc. is only reasonable for someone who is already receiving a substantial wage package, by downloading these packages gives the user the time to learn and fine tune there skills which ultimately improves the chances for employment in the industry, this in turns allows them to buy the packages legally, giving Microsoft and adobe there well earned cash. yes there is the option of getting a students licence but nobody want to put time and effort into creating something original to have a dirty big logo itched on top of it.

peace

Welcome to exceem, what a peculiar 1st post (not that I disagree!)

I think it's a good thing and clearly some companies agree and that's why they've started giving students copies for free.

It means when they're working in the industry that they'll use their product. The great advantage of the student versions is that the companies can form communities and people can learn from each other etc.

[the_icks]

Originally Posted by -null-

And you managed to sneak in before me again

Sorry barcelonic I wasn't just answering you but delude as well. It seemed to me that person A (and person B I guess) was essentially using the illegal software as a extended demo.


It costs money to develop software so why should a software company not be paid for that even if someone is only using that software on one project. Or only plays that game once.

You mentioning VCRs, I seem to recall watching something about music pirating. It was talking about how an album (think it was Thriller actually) was one of the most copied albums on music cassette and yet it still sold millions.

ca-what?

[Tippy]

I think that if companies do not want people owning pirated copies of their software then they need to lower the price or make it avaliable so that everyone can afford it.

As i only ONCE downloaded pirated software as i couldn't afford to buy it (Out of work), but then realised that i wasn't gonna use it that much so i deleted it. I think no harm done. But i think if i was gonna use it alot i would of saved up & brought it or got it for FREE off one of the freebie sites.

I know what i did was wrong, but we all learn from our mistakes.

Tippy

[-null-]

Originally Posted by the_icks

ca-what?

huh?

[delude]

Originally Posted by -null-

huh?

the_icks is so young and hip that he doesn't know what a Cassette is.

[the_icks]

I remember 8 track!